Lug Studs/Nuts vs Lug Bolts

[DrDoctor]

   I read somewhere (sorry, but I just can’t recall where) about using 2¹/₈" x ⁷/₁₆" x 20 wheel studs in lieu of the original lug bolts. I’ve been considering doing this, as putting wheels that don’t have the alignment pin hole in it, and the center register hole isn’t the same(it’s larger) as the center hub shoulder, on the car which no longer has the alignment pins on any of the hubs while using lug bolts vs lug studs is a real pain in the posterior. And, don’t even get me started about the left-hand threads . . . I understand the principle involved, but it just makes that pain in the posterior that much more acute!!! My only concern with proceeding with this is how to secure the lugs to prevent them from turning with the lug nut when cinching them tight, or worse yet – when trying to remove the lug nut, which would be yet another even more acute major pain in the posterior. Anyway, has anyone done this, and what method was utilized to secure the studs to prevent them from turning? Thank You in advance to responders for their input.

   Thx.

[Plymouthy Adams]

wimp mobile studs.....not saying they will not do the job but my lowly little Austin America uses this size stud and nut....brings up the ole advertising slogan from a time ago......WHERE'S THE BEEF  ?

[DrDoctor]

  Point well made – so, what size lug stud/nut would be recommended?   Thx.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the stock hole in your rim is sized for the 1/2 stud and matching conical nut...

[Andydodge]

Mopars use 1/2 UNF threads on their wheels studs and bolts & nuts........Frod also use 1/2 UNF & I've used them to convert Dodge & Plymouth to RH threaded studs all the way around, in Oz Frod studs are easier to find than mopar ones ..............7/16th is the pretend Chev thread.......lol..........when I fitted the Wheel Vintique Chrome Smoothies to the original Plymouth drums I had to remove the locating stud on each drum and grind a small amount off the rivets between each threaded bolt hole, then just used the original left/right bolts to attach the rims.......long term intention was to run discs with the Mopar/Frod pattern & these wheels........with previous cars the studs I was using were Ford F100 studs, I'd suggest measuring the length of stud you need to get the stud thread length then measure the threaded area inside the brake drum hub to get the length of the stud splined area and go compare studs......from memory I used to have to drill the threaded area in the brake drum hub out to 9/16 or maybe 5/8th, it was a tight fit, I tapped the studs in from the back and once they were partially in I then used a wheel nut from the outside to literally pull the studs through this ensured that the studs were a nice tight fit ...........regards, andyd 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Andydodge

[DrDoctor]

  Oops, that one got away from me before I was finished – anyway: I had a ’56 Chevy convertible (back in the 60‘s)that used a ⁷/₁₆” socket for the lug nuts, and I had a /65 Pontiac that used a ½” socket for the lug nuts. I’d want to use no smaller than the Chevrolet sized lug nuts. Agree????   Thx.

[DrDoctor]

  Oops again – I just saw your reply immediately after I submitted mine. I guess they passed each other “in the mails”.   Thx.

[_shel_ny]

Front disc conversion eliminates 1/2 the problem.

Right side drum to replace left drum on the rear takes care of the left hand thread problem.

Take tire off once a year not much problem

Edited December 2, 2016 by _shel_ny
spelling

[DrDoctor]

   Andydodge – Did you have the holes splined, or did the splined shoulders of the studs cut their own splines as they were forced into the holes? Also, did you ever encounter any issue with the studs turning in their holes?

   Shel-ny: Same question for you as above. Also, I really like your comment about taking off the wheels yearly. Or, at least loosening the lug nuts one at a time annually. I’ll admit that I don’t deal with the wheels unless there’s a reason for me to, so they may remain untouched for literally years! I guess untouched here is spelled “neglect”. I’ll have to make an effort to address the wheels routinely.

   Thx.

[DrDoctor]

   Nuts!!! This is getting ridiculous – another message got away from me before I was ready. I guess I’m more fatigued than I tho’t I was. Sorry ‘bout that.

   Andydodge – I’ll admit I’d prefer the ½“ size studs, but the ⁷/₁₆ “ would probably suffice. My main concern is the lugs spinning in their holes. Did you have the holes splined, or did the splined shoulders of the studs cut their own splines as they were forced into the holes? Also, did you ever encounter any issue with the studs turning in their holes?

   Shel-ny: Same question for you as above.

   Thx.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you can buy lugs in various lengths, stud size and thread and many different shoulder diameters for inserting...get the ones to interference fit you threaded holes regardless of left or right thread..press them in and let the big dog eat...you making this way to hard on yourself....get out your measuring devices and do a collect a bit of data..go to Dorman stud site, yes there is one just look on the internet...get what you need..it is that simple

[59bisquik]

The best bet is to order studs with a large knurl and get the correct drill bit. It only takes a few minutes on the drill press to open up the holes to the right size and then press in the studs. Then there is little worry of the studs coming loose.

I got the 718-8235 studs from Jegs. 1/2''-20 x 1-1/2" .615'' Knurl.

Then grab a 39/64" drill bit.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

see...getting even easier....

[belvedere666]

A member here named Smokeybear suggested this.... follow this thread. you'll see his comment about the Dorman studs. http://p15-d24.com/topic/32915-wheel-studs/

this is my plan, i just haven't gotten around to it yet. i found that NAPA has an interchange part, but i can't remember the part number.

[_shel_ny]

As your bolts are as previously noted already 1/2-20 thread, a 7/16" stud to replace them does not make any sense to me. Little chance that they would hold.

My point on yearly is that I would not expect to pull a wheel more than once a year. Maybe less. I would not consider "not pulling the wheels " neglect.  I do not see bolts without an alignment pin to be a big enough problem to go through the process of installing studs as there is no real reason to be pulling the wheels with any frequency.. Now if I had a bad bolt hole or two that might be a turning point on my thinking.

[_shel_ny]

My D24 had studs and nuts. The lefty nuts problem on the back left was solved for me when I put 235/75's on the back that were already mounted on wheels with too much backset. Had to put a spacer to bring them out a bit. Spacer threads were righty.

[Andydodge]

Drsin.......as I mentioned, do NOT use the 7/16th thread size......get the proper 1/2" UNF thread sized studs...as others have mentioned there are plenty around, the spline cuts its own way into the hub if the hole is drilled to the correct size..........never had a problem doing this............instant normal wheel attachment then..................andyd

[BigDaddyO]

On 12/1/2016 at 8:36 PM, The Dr's In said:

   putting wheels that don’t have the alignment pin hole in it, and the center register hole isn’t the same(it’s larger) as the center hub shoulder, on the car which no longer has the alignment pins on any of the hubs while using lug bolts vs lug studs is a real pain in the posterior. And, don’t even get me started about the left-hand threads . . . I understand the principle involved, but it just makes that pain in the posterior that much more acute!!!

   Thx.

My guess is that you never worked on changing tires on old Volkswagens.

[Andydodge]

BigdaddyO.....yep, have never had to lift a spanner near a VW.......in fact any metric nuts & bolts found within the garage get thrown in the bin..........lol...............andyd

[wayfarerstranger]

Best solution , if you don`t like old car technology don`t buy an old car,  quit butchering these old cars and go buy a one .

[Plymouthy Adams]

good advice but often the car comes butchered..then a work around is in order...many folks have cut the hanging pin over the course of time to mount different wheels and thus the missing  pin.  Later somebody tries to put it back as original...in some cases are not aware the pin has been cut and has a problem mounting the wheel and wonders the WHY

next we have the problem of stripped or missing left hand bolts, even right hand for that  matter....finding these is a bit tough...think some Massey tractors suppliers still has these LH available but would not hold my breath as I was in the TSC last month I looked, and for the record found none at this time.  Upgrading to studs is a most common method to SAVE what is original to the old car what is a couple studs compared to swapping out major components like the hubs. 

Theoretically the 7/16 has the mounting strength but with the smaller conical nut which at some point on the taper will seat, just how well is it seating on the wheel and not protruding through and touching the hub itself losing clamping force.  This alone is my bases for saying, stick with the 1/2-20 hardware and the proper conical seat.

[DrDoctor]

   Again, I must agree with my esteemed colleague Plymouthy Adams. I’ve got a contemporary car, and I like it just fine. It does what it’s supposed to, so I have no complaints. However, like most contemporary cars, it has the overall shape of a potato – not much uniqueness. Plus, it’s very complicated (pronounced “electronic everything”). That’s why I also like older cars – you can tell them apart from one another, and especially from the contemporary ones, as a mere glance. I also appreciate the simplicity of their technology, but that being said, that technology can sometimes leave something to be desired. As Mr. Adams so eloquently put forth with the example of the left-hand-threaded lug bolts – one just doesn’t run into your local auto-parts-box-store and pick up a couple to replace the ones that have been stripped by some tire store person who never knew such a thing existed, and proceeded to inadvertently strip it off, or snap it off completely. So, there are reasons for altering/improving the applied technology of the day, if for no other reason than to keep that old technology working. Thx.

 

   I was leaning towards the ½” studs, because of their greater strength, but must admit I didn’t take into consideration the smaller ⁷/₁₆” lug nuts protruding too deeply into the wheel lug hole and hitting the hub before it tightened the wheel against the hub. Great info that I totally overlooked. Many Thanks!!! Regards,  Thx.

[dale]

Whatever you do isnt going to be worth the effort.

[DrDoctor]

   Interesting remark. What makes you think that? Let's just consider this topic permanently closed.

Edited December 3, 2016 by The Dr's In