55 Fargo Goes Hi-Perf

[55 Fargo]

Hey all, had a suspicious package arrive today at the local Canada Post Office inside the General Store.

Much to my thrill, a AoK Asche Dual Intake/exhaust, BBI carbs, and a A833 adpater plate was in the box.

Now the big plan for phase 1, pull stock manifolds, clean up engine paint and make all nice and purdy.

The new duals will be installed, with George Asche carbs and linkage, these are the large cfm truck carbs too.

Hope to get a lot more punch out this old 238 engine, gonna be kool.

The A 833 trans, have 1 in the wings, not sure how well it will be with my current 3.23 gears, but do think it should be just fine, T5ers eat your hearts out...LOL

I am not sure if I will be pulling the head, and having it shaved, but that is a possibility.

The final plan at some future point is the ultimate 265 hot cam, shaved head, will definitely push this little old Fargo along real nicely....

[Jeff Balazs]

It will be interesting to hear how you get along with this. Be sure to have some baseline acceleration and mileage figures to compare against. If you can what would be very telling would be an acceleration test over the exact same course before and after.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

It will be interesting to hear how you get along with this. Be sure to have some baseline acceleration and mileage figures to compare against. If you can what would be very telling would be an acceleration test over the exact same course before and after.

 

Jeff

i did not get into this with fuel economy in mind to be honest.

I would however fully expect to get better fuel economy with the dual carbs and exhaust, even before i retrofit the A833 trans.

I do however expect to get some greater throttle response, power, and a way cooler sound than single exhaust.

I do not want to guess what HP increases this may provide, so as the nayayers will come out of the hills to lynch me..

[Jeff Balazs]

i did not get into this with fuel economy in mind to be honest.

I would however fully expect to get better fuel economy with the dual carbs and exhaust, even before i retrofit the A833 trans.

I do however expect to get some greater throttle response, power, and a way cooler sound than single exhaust.

I do not want to guess what HP increases this may provide, so as the nayayers will come out of the hills to lynch me..

Well I would expect that if it is a good set up you should definitely see an improvement in fuel economy. If it goes the other way then you know you have a problem.

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

Well I would expect that if it is a good set up you should definitely see an improvement in fuel economy. If it goes the other way then you know you have a problem.

Jeff

This set is as best of quality and engineering that can be had, George Asche built.

I do expect better fuel economy if not too heavy footed, if I am driving the pedal hard i do not.

I expect a HP pickup of 15 HP or more, better flow, better breathing, more punch at speeds from 45mph and over.

The best part is the sounds, the look, and the uniqueness of this setup.

I do have the big plans for a 265 in the future, but for now, I am so very happy to have this...

[Jeff Balazs]

Fred;

All I meant by good I is that it is properly dialed in or tuned for your particular engine.

 

Jeff

[John-T-53]

Hey all, had a suspicious package arrive today at the local Canada Post Office inside the General Store.

Much to my thrill, a AoK Asche Dual Intake/exhaust, BBI carbs, and a A833 adpater plate was in the box.

Now the big plan for phase 1, pull stock manifolds, clean up engine paint and make all nice and purdy.

The new duals will be installed, with George Asche carbs and linkage, these are the large cfm truck carbs too.

Hope to get a lot more punch out this old 238 engine, gonna be kool.

The A 833 trans, have 1 in the wings, not sure how well it will be with my current 3.23 gears, but do think it should be just fine, T5ers eat your hearts out...LOL

I am not sure if I will be pulling the head, and having it shaved, but that is a possibility.

The final plan at some future point is the ultimate 265 hot cam, shaved head, will definitely push this little old Fargo along real nicely....

 

This is a very nice setup, and George sure has this thing dialed in! I put the same on mine (except for the dual exhaust) back in '12, and besides the cool looks it sure made a difference in power and economy.

 

Before, even with OD, I got around 14-15 MPG, but now it's usually 17-18.

 

And the biggest power increase was mostly noticeable on the low end. I have no idea of actual HP, but the seat of the pants is 'nuff for me.

 

One of the good things about this setup is it keeps the manifolds sandwiched together providing the much needed heat xfer. It will still take longer to warm up than a single carb setup. One thing I still had to do before installing, is clean up the inside of the intake where George brazed on the new uprights. It needed a lot of cleanup with a deburring tool, otherwise the air flow would have had a lot of turbulence.

 

As for the 833 tranny, it will be nice to finally see one getting installed in a truck, after all of the banter going on lately. If you know what the tranny gear ratios are, you will know how it will work with the 3.23 rear, without having to drive it to find out.

[55 Fargo]

This is a very nice setup, and George sure has this thing dialed in! I put the same on mine (except for the dual exhaust) back in '12, and besides the cool looks it sure made a difference in power and economy.

 

Before, even with OD, I got around 14-15 MPG, but now it's usually 17-18.

 

And the biggest power increase was mostly noticeable on the low end. I have no idea of actual HP, but the seat of the pants is 'nuff for me.

 

One of the good things about this setup is it keeps the manifolds sandwiched together providing the much needed heat xfer. It will still take longer to warm up than a single carb setup. One thing I still had to do before installing, is clean up the inside of the intake where George brazed on the new uprights. It needed a lot of cleanup with a deburring tool, otherwise the air flow would have had a lot of turbulence.

 

As for the 833 tranny, it will be nice to finally see one getting installed in a truck, after all of the banter going on lately. If you know what the tranny gear ratios are, you will know how it will work with the 3.23 rear, without having to drive it to find out.

Yes it is a very beautiful set-up, including the big truck carbs, linkage is well engineered. I am waiting anxiously to see the power difference from what it is now.

How big a difference did you notice with your performance from stock to the addition of the dual carbs?

Did you do any other engine work too, thought you rebuilt the engine same time? A fresh engine even of stock can seem like a big boost I would gather.

The A833 trans has the same gear ratios as my T98A, well 1st to 3rd on the A833 is about the same as 2nd to 4th on the T98A, with my current rear end gears, being 3.23, it's hardly neck snapping, 3.73 would be nice, and with a .71 4th gear overdrive, that would be about right.

At 60 mph in 4th OD and my 3.23 diff, any big hill or headwinds, might be a cause for concern as it would be something like 2.29.

I do see that most likely could spell trouble, and will address that at the same time.

[William Davey]

Fargo - My $0.02... You'll probably have to get a new drive shaft to go with the A833, why not do some math and change the rear gears now?  Once and done.  

[55 Fargo]

Fargo - My $0.02... You'll probably have to get a new drive shaft to go with the A833, why not do some math and change the rear gears now?  Once and done.  

Not just yet, I have no issues cutting this driveshaft again or retrofitting another infact I may have another driveshaft that will possibly work.

I do have an 80s Mopar 8 1/4 diff now, so have the ebrake all set-up too.

I am going to see what performance changes occurr with the new dual/dual, prior to any trans swapping or diff swapping.

Math, well I know what the ratios are now with the 3.23 gears, 2nd to 4th in a T98A are almost exactly the same as 1st to 3rd on the A833.

with 3.23 gears, and in 2nd gear, the ratio is 9.98 a little light for launching, but I am not revving or slipping in the least in mine to get going..

Edited May 12, 2016 by Fargos-Go-Far

[55 Fargo]

T98 Acme trans, very heavy duty truck like, 6.40, 3.09, 1.69, 1.00, the A833, 3.09, 1.67, 1.00, .71 or .73

[NiftyFifty]

When I talked to two guys that are transmission guys for a living, they had nothing good to say about the A833, but I hope it work out for you...being behind low hp it will likely be fine, I think it was the V8's that were likely killing them. I thought your engine was weak, and had plans to rebuild?

[55 Fargo]

When I talked to two guys that are transmission guys for a living, they had nothing good to say about the A833, but I hope it work out for you...being behind low hp it will likely be fine, I think it was the V8's that were likely killing them. I thought your engine was weak, and had plans to rebuild?

Well I think you must be confused , A833 trans, is quite capable to 400 ft lbs of torque, 426/440 muscle cars.

If you want to debate this topic, please go away, as i do not, there are others already on this thread, who have a T5 and they are welcome.

My engine has miles, but decent compression, great oil pressure, at some point plan to build another engine for the truck, going with a dual/dual, certainly will not hurt anything, will it?

This thread is not an open door for your inexperienced  knowledge on the A833 trans. The A 833 is a very tough trans, and the lighter duty version I am looking at is more than enough for my flathead engine.

So 4mula, if you came here to stir it up, please go away, I want this thread to be informative, useful and cordial thanks...

[John-T-53]

Yes it is a very beautiful set-up, including the big truck carbs, linkage is well engineered. I am waiting anxiously to see the power difference from what it is now.

How big a difference did you notice with your performance from stock to the addition of the dual carbs?

Did you do any other engine work too, thought you rebuilt the engine same time? A fresh engine even of stock can seem like a big boost I would gather.

The A833 trans has the same gear ratios as my T98A, well 1st to 3rd on the A833 is about the same as 2nd to 4th on the T98A, with my current rear end gears, being 3.23, it's hardly neck snapping, 3.73 would be nice, and with a .71 4th gear overdrive, that would be about right.

At 60 mph in 4th OD and my 3.23 diff, any big hill or headwinds, might be a cause for concern as it would be something like 2.29.

I do see that most likely could spell trouble, and will address that at the same time.

 

I can't accurately quantify the increase in power, because I didn't put this thing on a dyno, but just my ass confirms a big "10-4" on the increase. Also, I don't have to downshift as much for uphill grades, which confirms it more.

 

I built the motor at the same time and changed the bottom end, resulting in a 230 instead of 218 c.i.d. The motor was running well before except for rod bearing troubles, but the increase in displacement combined with the better breathability of the dual carb setup resulted in synergy that gave me more power and economy. You will definitely notice something when you bolt yours up.

 

The A833 gears of 3.09, 1.67, 1.00, .71 or .73, when combined with your 3.23:1, result in 9.98, 5.39, 3.23, and 2.35 respectively.

 

This is a little on the high side for the flattie, and it will definitely go with these, but having a first gear in the 12 to 13:1 ratio will give you a little better performance. So yeah, the 3.73 as you mentioned will "be nice". Or better yet, a 3.9...

Edited May 13, 2016 by John-T-53

[NiftyFifty]

You started the thread with toting the A833 and the "eat your heart out T5ers" why should I not be able to apply credible info the the thread, it wasn't a lie, and their quite talented and knowledgable people that I conferred with...I think your a little touchy and thus I'm not going to bother posting in your threads, you don't seem to be able to take any criticism or objective opinion. You posted numerous times your engine was having issues, I asked a question....I'll know not to bother with that moving forward.

[55 Fargo]

I can't accurately quantify the increase in power, because I didn't put this thing on a dyno, but just my ass confirms a big "10-4" on the increase. Also, I don't have to downshift as much for uphill grades, which confirms it more.

 

I built the motor at the same time and changed the bottom end, resulting in a 230 instead of 218 c.i.d. The motor was running well before except for rod bearing troubles, but the increase in displacement combined with the better breathability of the dual carb setup resulted in synergy that gave me more power and economy. You will definitely notice something when you bolt yours up.

 

The A833 gears of 3.09, 1.67, 1.00, .71 or .73, when combined with your 3.23:1, result in 9.98, 5.39, 3.23, and 2.35 respectively.

 

This is a little on the high side for the flattie, and it will definitely go with these, but having a first gear in the 12 to 13:1 ratio will give you a little better performance. So yeah, the 3.73 as you mentioned will "be nice". Or better yet, a 3.9...

Hi John, well time will tell, for this year, it will be just the swap into the duals/duals, and I am very happy about it.

Yes the gear ratios, with my current differential is a bit high for a flattie.

The good news is the truck is quite light, 108 WB what maybe 3200 lbs empty, no hills and slower traffic in my area for the most part...

[timkingsbury]

You started the thread with toting the A833 and the "eat your heart out T5ers" why should I not be able to apply credible info the the thread, it wasn't a lie, and their quite talented and knowledgable people that I conferred with...I think your a little touchy and thus I'm not going to bother posting in your threads, you don't seem to be able to take any criticism or objective opinion. You posted numerous times your engine was having issues, I asked a question....I'll know not to bother with that moving forward.

 

I just can resist..   Look 4mula-dlx - the second you come out with  "When I talked to two guys that are transmission guys for a living, they had nothing good to say about the A833, but I hope it work out for you...being behind low hp it will likely be fine, I think it was the V8's that were likely killing them."  your or your so called experts credibility go down the toilet.    The a833 transmission is about as bullet proof as there is, capable of way more torque and hp than the t5s.

 

While I have no idea of the condition of Fred's engine etc, its super clear your just here to stir up ****, and if you love your t5, that's great, but to come out suggesting the a833 is some how a weak transmission, is just completely incorrect. I ran a 1200 hp hemi infront of one, have all the dyno records and if you put a t5

behind that engine, it wouldn't last 30 minutes. 

 

So suggest a t5 is a better alternative for your application, ok.. drive on.. but suggest the a833 is some how a weak transmission and by inference that the t5 is

some how stronger..  please..

[55 Fargo]

Here is the current condition of my engine, not that I need to lay it on the line or anything.

Unrebuilt as far as I know, a 228 or 238, has 40 psi oil pressure at idle when warm, might drop to 35 when super hot, 55-60 psi at speed.

Compression is around 100 across the board, this engine has miles, but when i just pulled the oil pan, was very surprised, super clean and very little sludge. 

She does not burn oil and leaks very little, vacuum at idle is 18.

So not sure what troubles I may have been having except an engine with some experience.

The main focus of my thread, is the conversion from stock single carb/exhaust to a new AoK Asche dual carbs and exhaust....

[55 Fargo]

BTW, nice to see we have an audience, I started this thread in good faith, and it has already been sabotaged by somebody who has blamed me in other threads for being the trouble maker.

Now GTK Tod Fitch or GGdad1951, I have no problem following what yall have suggested in other thread dustups, I suggest you reiterate this point to the culprit now Geesh does this always have to come to this...