Poly Project

[mrwrstory]

Hi All,

​I've decided to share my current fantasy with all of the two or three of you who might enjoy this upcoming trip.  I have had some success with fabricating stuff w/o prior experience, so I am embarking on another adventure.  I'll never learn.   It's amazin what you can achieve with ignorance and tenacity, so follow along and see what happens.  I am open to questions and comments and will share failures as well as successes.

About a dozen years ago I patched some Dodge Poly valve covers onto the Chev small block in my Roadster.  Amazing the response in a sea of 350 billet.  Had a lot of folks scratching there heads which was great fun for many years.  The Poly engine, the valve covers came from, became a Hemi,..... another Story    .

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So a few weeks ago, a local shop was liquidating their stash of vintage stuff and I scored my next project.

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It's a 270 cu. in. Dodge.  More in a few days

Edited April 29, 2016 by mrwrstory

[40plyrod]

Can't wait! Do we have a "home" for the acquisition?

[deathbound]

I'll be watching & I'm sure the successes will far outnumber the failures....if any.

[wayfarer]

...nothing better than an 'orphan' to draw attention....

 

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[RodFru2u]

Nice Score Bill, I'm sure with your skills and wild ideas this one will draw crowds from other parking lots. Good Luck, Looking forward to updates and one day seeing the beast run.

[mrwrstory]

Can't wait! Do we have a "home" for the acquisition?

This seems like a natural except when you drop an engine into the "black hole engine bay" no one can see it.

We'll see what perks to the surface in the next year or so.

[mrwrstory]

Tenacity and impulse sometimes begets "hero points",.......sometimes not.  

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I spent a fair amount of time trying to figger what was holding the bell housing at the passenger side.  I thunk and felt and pried and heated and could not find this bolt.  I knew I'd be sacrificing the casting.  I had no use for it but it bugs me that I couldn't figure it out. So I took the BFH to it.

For the life of me,...I can't see how anyone could install this bolt.  It's behind the flywheel and is installed after the clutch and

flywheel are in place.   I guess I don't feel too bad in my ignorance.  Flywheel bolts have the same mystery attachment but I knew that.

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So I consoled myself by looking at some Engine Porn!

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Think big Weber side draft carburetor. 

[wayfarer]

I'd be cutting the 'snorkel' back so that the DCOE would mount inline and mostly centered above the intake.

Looks like you have about 3" before the radius starts.

 

Are the exhaust manifolds good?

[mrwrstory]

I'd be cutting the 'snorkel' back so that the DCOE would mount inline and mostly centered above the intake.

Looks like you have about 3" before the radius starts.

 

Are the exhaust manifolds good?

Didn't think 'bout modifying the snorkel,.....maybe.  Exhaust manifolds are good but I'm thinkin 180 degree headers again.

[40plyrod]

I know what you mean about the "black hole" seem like you only have to detail the top half of the engine in a 40, the bottom half can be " barn fresh" oil leaks and all. Crazy spot for a bolt through. On the farm a BFH a lot of the time is the tool of choice, usually followed by the saying " oh so that's how it comes apart". I'm going to definitely keep watching.

[mrwrstory]

Next order of business (one of many "next orders") is to imagineer how to put these two pieces together.

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​And to establish a location that respects the accessory belt requirements.  I'm thinkin serpentine with reverse rotation water pump.

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[wayfarer]

  I'm thinkin serpentine with reverse rotation water pump.

 

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...sounds like a shiverlay part.......

 

Any way to keep the rotation in a 'normal' direction?

[48Dodger]

......................but I'm thinkin 180 degree headers again.

 

Build the headers first, and then everything else around it...!!

 

48D

[mrwrstory]

"Any way to keep the rotation in a 'normal' direction?"

Haven't thought it through in detail yet 'tho a single belt gets min. dimension in the front of the engine.  Short pump is not an option because of timing cover space requirement.

I'm currently working on things that don't cost money.  Cutting up stuff I already own, like intake and water manifolds, works to the goal of establishing the front to back blower location as it affects pulley/belt alignment.

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[mrwrstory]

After facing off the manifold, two plates were mocked up using particle board to visualize the interface between the blower and the manifold.  

It's kinda a laminate idea as that's the only way I could figger it, given my skills and resources and how to assemble the whole pile of parts.  

The first layer will be welded to the manifold at the opening and then beneath around the perimeter.  The opening will be "hogged" out to expose the rectangular plenum connecting all the ports.

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After the front to back location of the blower is determined, the second plate will be welded to the first.  All the welding is in difficult to reach

places so we'll confirm that's doable before proceeding much farther.  You can see the restricted area for welding in the pic below.  Note also

the flanges on the blower case.  They will be machined off to match the width of the top plate and studs installed in the case to protrude through the top plate for nuts to attach the blower to the manifold.

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A particular challenge is aligning four pulleys from three diff. manufactures in order to make the system work.  At the moment,

the plan is to start at the crank and adapt a Ford 8 groove pulley (because that's what's on the blower) to a Mopar harmonic balancer.  

Next is a GM water pump, with another 8 groove pulley, and work out how those two align.  Success there determines the plain location

(front to back) for locating the blower pulley.  The alternator and idler should be a "walk in the park" after that.

Edited May 8, 2016 by mrwrstory

[40plyrod]

Yup, welding that lower plate to the manifold is not going to be fun! I imagine the manifold is too thin to drill and tap into allowing you to bolt the 1st plate with a perimeter of countersunk allen heads? 

[wayfarer]

...perhaps welding a piece of ½" x 1" bar stock to the manifold (1" on the vertical)(following the contours) would allow better access to the plate. The added plenum volume should not be an issue.

[mrwrstory]

Yup, welding that lower plate to the manifold is not going to be fun! I imagine the manifold is too thin to drill and tap into allowing you to bolt the 1st plate with a perimeter of countersunk allen heads? 

 

 

...perhaps welding a piece of ½" x 1" bar stock to the manifold (1" on the vertical)(following the contours) would allow better access to the plate. The added plenum volume should not be an issue.

I stressed about the challenge of welding the laminations to the manifold w/o warping it.  Couldn't come up with a good way of bolting it down while still allowing access for the torch.  Shared that with a friend who has done several of these conversions and we came up with this.

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The two mini rails are of low mass so modest heat should do the trick.  They will be welded to the manifold plenum set into the reliefs and then drilled and tapped.  The two 1/2" plates will then be screwed together and to the manifold to provide the mounting surface for the blower.

I have also learned that 8 groove pulleys and 8 rib belts are rare items.  And, if I settle for a 6 rib system, I have unlimited prospects for belts and pulleys.

Edited May 12, 2016 by mrwrstory

[mrwrstory]

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Took a little side trip to Fantasy Island since the last post.  Figgered as long as I was at it, why not an inter-cooler under the blower?  Imagined I'd discovered something no one had thought of, so I bought the parts and developed a tidy package before I shared the idea with a friend who's done several of these packages (w/o inter-cooler).  He's much smarter than me.  His observation was,...ya don't wanna do that with a draw-through-carburetor system.  Since the inter-cooler is acting on an air/fuel mixture, the fuel will tend to condense out.  Potential fireworks!  DOAH!!!   Now I see why it's not been done before.

Good thing I kept the boxes.   

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[Ulu]

Except for the intercooler in a shoebox deal, this actually looks like it might work and not blow up the manifold.

[mrwrstory]

Since my last post I have had a change of heart.  In confessing my bail-out to others, I've had more input.  Relevant to my issue was the observation that carbureted, supercharged boats use intercoolers.  And they have a bigger temp drop at the intercooler via the use of even cooler lake water.  And, and after worrying about pooling fuel in the intake manifold, I thunk,....I've seen that before, like in many engines I've worked on when flooding was an issue.

So I'm back to the project and tryin to figger how to put 10lbs of "stuff" in a 5lb bag"  Seems a lot of "stuff" wants to be in the same place at the same time.  I am also challenged to establish the sequence of machining events (I'm learning machining too) to assure alignment of components.

[mrwrstory]

​I've gotten over the hump of visualizing the solution.  Did another round of models the allowed me to see some interferences and some opportunities to slightly reduce the package.  Big issue for me was to figger how to mount the heat-exchanger and then plumb it for water in and out. Got a grip on all that so the next order of business, for the intercooler/blower, is to commit to aluminum,....which will come after the cruisin season.  Expended minimal cash so far.  This Fall/Winter the Poly needs to be opened up to understand it's health.

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[wayfarer]

OK Bill, vacation time is over....we need an up-date......

[mrwrstory]

The idea of the Poly Project is/was that it be a long term deal.  Got to a point where I'm comfortable that the concept will work and that I have spend no money,or very little so far.  This Winter I'll get to it if not distracted by ideas that are festering for the Plymouth and the Roadster.

In the meantime I have enjoyed three road trips and a local jaunt to a 9/11 Memorial.  The Memorial was about the best thing to experience.  Pepperdine University, overlooking the Pacific, displays a flag for every soul who was lost at The World Trade Center in 2011.  Note a few from other countries.  It was a very sobering site.  More pics in a few days.

[mrwrstory]

nother