'49 Chrys Horn - Horn Ring

[rb1949]

No toots. Spotted a horn wiring diagram here. Guess it's logical to start at the horn and work backwards. Jump from the relay to the horn to see if it honks(?) Then find the wire from the steering column. Grounding that should honk, if the relay is working(?) If all good, is that pointing to check for a problem in the horn button. Horn ring removal, press and turn CCW or CW. Question: does this pop off the horn ring, or are you trying to remove the center cap from the horn ring? If the cap comes off, maybe there are screws under there holding the ring. Here's a picture of the steering wheel.

 

[knuckleharley]

I can't help  you with that because I have never removed the steering wheel on my 49 Windsor coupe,but I do want to comment on how beautiful these stock dashboards are.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Pop the horn button off. Then remove the 3 screws that hold the retainer that captures the horn ring.

Bob

Edited February 18, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya

[rb1949]

Knuckle, yes, the dash is classy.

Bob,thanks for the pix. Looks like a Windsor? So pieces that make the horn work should be right there to look at. If the testing sequence gets that far.  It's on the list.

[garbagestate 44]

When re installing the ring, don't over tighten the 3 screws that hold the ring on. It looks a lot like my 47 Windsor underneath and by turning the screws, you visually adjust the ring so that the 3 spokes sit evenly in their channels. Good luck

[DonaldSmith]

As I figured out on my DeSoto, the wire through the steering shaft wants to be grounded, to close the circuit to the horn relay and honk the horn.  

 

The wire is plugged into a metal gizmo which the big spring wants push against.  The spring is grounded through the steering shaft.

 

The three-spoked ring keeps the spring compressed, so that it doesn't contact the gizmo at the end of the wire.  (The steering wheel is insulated, so there is no ground where the ring is connected to the steering wheel.)

 

Push the horn ring anywhere, and the three-spoked thing is tipped, allowing the spring to contact the gizmo and complete the grounding. 

 

Until the ring is fully screwed down, the horn circuit is grounded, so disconnect something to keep the horn from sounding.  Otherwise, it would add more urgency to the assembly. 

 

Pardon the technical language. 

[DJ194950]

Real car guys are into "gizmos" !!

[Dodgeb4ya]

Tighten all screws up tight... no adjustments possible

 

Take pics of the horn ring and related parts as you disassemble as to orientation of parts.

 

 A couple tests......With the key on and pushing up and down on the horn ring... You should hear a clicking sound  on the engine fire wall each time the horn ring is pushed down....this tells you the horn ring/ horn ring ground wire to the horn relay,  and the horn relay on the fire wall are all working.

If no relay click check the horn ring grounding wire that comes out the side of the steering gear box and make sure it is connected all the way up to the horn relay.. 

 You can also check the horns by disconnecting the green wires to each horn and directly feed each horn from the 6 Volt battery with a 14-16 ga.  wire to see that each horn honks strong and loud. 

 

Some more pics for you.. I would do the tests above first before tearing into the horn ring assembly. Might be just the horn wire coming out of the steering box not connected.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya

[rb1949]

Yes, testing should start at the horns and go backwards.  To "hear" the relay click, I presume the horn is disconnected .... otherwise it wound honk. Does the center cap button turn CCW? Technical terms are perfect. If schematics, diagrams and manuals pointed to gizmos, whacht-a-ma-callits and thing-a-ma-jigs, it would be easy.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The horn ring does NOT turn. It lifts straight up and off.

[rb1949]

Correct, question was rotation of the center button, horn ring does not turn. Jumped batt to horn .....good honks. LOUD. 2 horns, hi and low. Looks like relay next to the voltage regulator. Will recheck that diagram. Getting closer.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I meant to say the horn button ( Ornament Cap) does not turn! It pulls straight up and off. 

Edited February 20, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya

[rb1949]

OK, black wire from steering column to relay. With key on, jumped that to ground, and got honks. Looks like its up top in the column problem. But, center cap did not just lift straight up and off. Didn't seem to move upwards with gentle prying. Don't want to damage/bend it Will fiddle with it again later. Sooner or later will get those loud 2-tone honks. Better than the little squeak on the newer car.

[Dodgeb4ya]

It should be the same horn cap as a 1950 chrysler. Above is the pic showing the under side spring retaining clips of the plastic and chrome cap. The cap and chrome surround come off as a assembly.

[rb1949]

Your pix looks identical. And should be so simple. More gentle persuasion will probably do the trick on old part to remove & identify problem underneath. Yup, camera is ready too. Thanks for keeping an eye on me.

[rb1949]

DRATS. Some pretty hefty prying at 3 spots, and that center cap doesn't want to budge up and off. Not even a little bit for hope. Why is something so simple creating bad words?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Screws from underneath the chrome housing?

 It does unscrew from underneath !!!... sorry!

 I found some online pics of a 49 chrysler one...

Edited February 23, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya

[rb1949]

Thanks my friend. I looked this morning, and sure enough, there are 3 screw holes underneath the chrome housing. Will advise on progress to get toots. And of course, NOW I find this bit of info on the darn thing.

 

Dodge, 1949-50 All Models
Horn Button Removal—Disconnect wire below
steering gear, on some models, or at horn relay On
1949 models remove the screws from underside of
wheel hub and remove medallion and horn ring On
1950 models, pry up the medallion and bezel and remove
screws holding horn blowing ring Remove
screws holding contact plate and wire to hub Lift
off plate and wire, then remove spring.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I could not find any horn instructions in the chrysler shop manual.

I have worked on a couple 49 chryslers 30 or more years ago and don't remember about the steering column work. I do remember that the turn signal levers always seem to be loose and floppy!

Edited February 23, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya

[rb1949]

Hey there Dodge. Got the 3 screws out. Center cap came up and off. No screws for the ring, the center cap holds it in place. Did NOT remove the 3 leg 'gizmo' holding the spring in place. Didn't see any worn or broken pieces in there. Turned the ignition to 'ON', and the horn blows constantly!! HA. But that's a good sign, the wiring must all be intact. Now to figure out how it works, and why it doesn't honk with everything assembled(?) Gave up for today. Will check and clean any contact areas. Must have been off before, didn't like the looks of 2 screw heads, so will go pick up 3 new ones. This dumb thing will honk with the ring, or else. Even backed it in the tiny garage. We're expecting a mini-blizzard Wed-Thur. Will keep yapping with progress.

[DonaldSmith]

The 3-leg gizmo and the wire are not grounded when the assembly is, well, assembled.

The spring is always grounded.  

The horn ring has three lugs which hold the spring away from the gizmo.  

Push the horn ring, and one or two lugs will pull away from the spring, allowing the spring to contact the gizmo, the circuit to be completed, and the horn to honk.    

[rb1949]

Thanks, makes sense. And now know the wire is good. Figured pushing had to make a ground somehow. No work now, a blizzard. Wait til the snow melts.

[rb1949]

Weird. Isolated spring from gizmo with 3 spacers (simulate horn ring pressing down). Jump wire from gizmo to spring, makes contact, horn blows. All is perfect. Reassemble horn ring with center cap via 3 screws. Press horn ring. NOTHING!!!! What the h___ is going on with this dumb horn? Pressing does not want to make the contact. No toots is simply baffling.

[DonaldSmith]

Wait a minute!  If the spring is held away from the gizmo, the horn should not blow.  This is the normal condition.  If your spacers are metallic, they are shorting the spring to the gizmo.   The horn ring is metallic, but it is isolated from ground, and never contacts the gizmo, so in the normal position the lugs of the horn ring push down and hold the spring away from the gizmo.  In the normal position the horn does not blow.  

 

Now, the horn ring, when pressed anywhere, is supposed to rock, pulling one of its lugs away from the spring, allowing the spring to contact the gizmo.  Maybe something as you assembled it is keeping the horn ring from rocking.   

 

It's counter-intuitive.  The horn ring assembly is what's called a "normally closed" switch, but which is usually held open by an outside force.  

[rb1949]

Let's say it again.

Isolated spring from gizmo with 3 Plastic spacers (simulate horn ring pressing down). Horn does not blow, perfect, no contact. Jump wire from gizmo to isolated spring, makes contact, horn blows. All wiring operates perfectly. Remove plastic spacers. Reassemble horn ring in proper position with center cap via 3 screws. Horn ring rocks perfectly, no problem. Turn on key, no honks. This is good, no shorts. Press horn ring, which should tilt spring to make contact. No horn. Pressing ring fails to let the spring make contact. There are no other parts in there to make this dumb thing work. Repeat: baffled.