61farnham Posted October 1, 2015 Report Posted October 1, 2015 Hi all, Can someone give me an up to date part no. for the rear inner axle seal on a 1948 Plymouth with standard rear end please. I'm in the middle of fixing a leaky rear end to get the car to Robin's P15 picnic here in the U.K. on Sunday. I ordered a set of seals from Rockauto but the inner they've supplied is too big both in diameter and width which has a part no. National 450776. The inner seal i've just removed had a part no. SKF 13797 which according to Rockauto's listings is an alternative for the outer seal and it does looks the same as the outer seal Rockauto supplied which has a part no. National 6241S which is the same no. as the old outer seal in my brake plate. Are the inner and outers the same or has a previous owners fitted the wrong seal? Any help gratefully received. Regards.......... Simon. Quote
TodFitch Posted October 1, 2015 Report Posted October 1, 2015 This might help: http://www.ply33.com/Parts/group3#3-F Quote
61farnham Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Cheers for the link Tod, I didn't realise there are two different inner seals for for early/later P15's. I've checked my parts book and it gives the dimensions for the two seals with both having an outer diameter of 2.443" and a width of 0.5" the early seal an inner diameter of 1" 7/32 and the later at 1" 27/64. My car having a serial no 25041904 should use the later seal. I'm still a bit confused though, on your Plymouth Parts Interchange it gives 2 alternative no's for the early seal - 651678 Axle drive shaft oil washer assembly (inside) Interchange/Vendor: C/R 13892 NAPA NOS 13797 and one for the later seal- 1139896 Axle drive shaft oil washer assembly (inside) Interchange/Vendor: Skf 13892 Per posting by P15-D24 forum member. with the skf 13892 listed in both. I've checked that no on Rockauto and it gives the dimensions as follows- SKF 13892 Width (in)0.5 Shaft (in)1.375 Bore (in)2.686 Outer Diameter (in)2.69 The napa 13797 which was the same part no. as the inner seal I removed measures up at Part Number: NOS 13797 Product Line: NAPA Oil Seals Attributes:Wheel Seal I.D. : 1.375" Wheel Seal O.D. : 2.441" Wheel Seal Width : .25" The inner seal that Rockauto supplied to me, part no. National 450776, measures up the same as the Skf 13892 but this doesn't fit in my axle being a too large outer diameter. I've also measured up the outer seal Rockauto supplied, part no. National 6241s which matches the part no. off the old outer seal from the car, and it's the same as the Skf 13797 !!!!!! I'll have to see if I can find anything locally tommorrow to match the dimensions given in the parts book regards .........Simon. Edited October 1, 2015 by 61farnham Quote
61farnham Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I've just found these old posts http://p15-d24.com/topic/7820-rear-axle-bearing-part-numbers/?hl=13892#entry66408 http://p15-d24.com/topic/37906-rear-axle-outer-and-inner-seals-new-skf-numbers/?hl=13892 looks like the Skf 13892 fits '49 P18 cars and onwards and the 13797 is an alternative no. for the outer seal which means a previous owner fitted an outer seal in place of the inner no wonder it's leaking. All becoming clearer now just need to find a replacement for the inners. Edited October 1, 2015 by 61farnham Quote
desoto1939 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Posted October 1, 2015 according to my National Oil seals catalog 1948 Plymouth front wheel 5836 rear wheel 6241 rear Inner seals 1948 early 2.690 OD 6339 victor 49573 rear inner seals 1948 later 2.690 w/spring 50776 victor 49577 font wheel Victor number 4937 rear seel victor 46292 Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com all info taken either from my National Oil seals catalog and or Victor seal catalog Quote
61farnham Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for that info Rich, appreciate your input. Those National no's tally up with the seals I was supplied with, my problem is the inner seal looks too big to fit my axle housing. It has an outer diameter of 2.690" but my P15 parts book is giving the outer diameter as 2.443" which is the same as the seal I removed. Not sure what I'm missing here, hopefully time will tell! Hoping to source something locally later on today. Regards ........... Simon. Quote
desoto1939 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for that info Rich, appreciate your input. Those National no's tally up with the seals I was supplied with, my problem is the inner seal looks too big to fit my axle housing. It has an outer diameter of 2.690" but my P15 parts book is giving the outer diameter as 2.443" which is the same as the seal I removed. Not sure what I'm missing here, hopefully time will tell! Hoping to source something locally later on today. Regards ........... Simon. over the weekend I will check my victor catalog and try to match up against the mopar number to see what we come up with. This is why having a repair manual is so important.. Send me you home email address. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com Quote
desoto1939 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) ok I had my cd of gaskets with me at work. Looked in my Victor Seals Xross ref catalog. The Chrysler number 651678 matches to the victor number 49209 the Chrysler number 1139898 crosses over to the victor number 49143 Edited October 2, 2015 by desoto1939 Quote
TodFitch Posted October 2, 2015 Report Posted October 2, 2015 ok I had my cd of gaskets with me at work. Looked in my Victor Seals Xross ref catalog. The Chrysler number 651678 matches to the victor number 49209 the Chrysler number 1139898 crosses over to the victor number 49143 Thanks for that! I've added those cross references to the database for my web site. Quote
61farnham Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) This is turning in to a right saga, I only want a couple of seals! I've just done some searching with the last 2 Victor no's given by Rich and came across MI bearings website which gives the following info VICTOR SEAL 49209 SEALOEM PART NUMBER: 49209OEM Manufacturer: VICTORThis product is manufactured by Timken and provides a compatible interchange with the VICTOR 49209.Timken Part Number: 6241S VICTOR SEAL 49143 SEAL OEM PART NUMBER: 49143OEM Manufacturer: VICTORThis product is manufactured by Timken and provides a compatible interchange with the VICTOR 49143.Timken Part Number: 470950 Timken 6241s matches the outer seal no. on my car Timken 470950 cross references to National 470950 which is listed on Rockauto for a Dodge truck '46 - '50 but has the dimensions as follows Housing Bore (Inch)2.437 MaterialNitrile Outer Diameter (Inch)2.441 Shaft (Inch)1.375 Width (inch)0.375 which is looks spot on for my axle maybe I have a truck axle ? I've taken some pics of the serial no's on my diff housing so if anyone can decipher them I'd be grateful 1115941-23 3 28 4J Thanks again ...................... Simon. Edited October 2, 2015 by 61farnham Quote
61farnham Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) This has turned into an episode of CSI !!! I've done a bit more research on these seals and i think I've found where the confusion lies In my P15 parts book, which is Oct '48 version, it shows two conflicting no's for the rear inner seals as below 1139896 measures 2.69" Outer Diameter 1.375" Inner Diameter 0.5" Width and cross references with Timken 450776 National 450776 Skf 13892 Victor 49577 Victor 49573 Mopar 1115938 1139898 measures 2.44" Outer Diameter 1.375" Inner Diameter 0.5" Width and cross references with Timken 470950 National 470950 Victor 49143 Also found this in the download section I was originally supplied with the larger seal by Rockauto but my axle, which I assume is the original one, takes the smaller seal. Has anyone else come across this when replacing inner axle seals on a P15? The other thing with the second pic out the parts book is that it doesn't list cars built in L.A., which mine car was, only Detroit and Evansville. I'm assuming they used the same rear axle for all? While I'm at it here are the details for the outer grease seal I found Original Mopar no. 859164 2.44" Outer Diameter 1.375" Inner Diameter 0.25" Width Cross references with National 6241s Skf 13797 Victor 49209 I got most of the cross reference info from this Timken site http://www.timken.co.uk/en-us/products/Documents/Timken_Seal_Interchange_and_Cross_Reference_Guide.pdf It is already in the links section under Timken Catalogs I'll update when the new seals arrive and get fitted. Regards ...........Simon. Edited October 6, 2015 by 61farnham Quote
61farnham Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Posted November 14, 2015 Hi all, Just updating this thread,the new seals arrived and my axles back together. I guess the lesson I learned was not to trust suppliers and pull the parts first to see what you need before ordering. regards to all ............... Simon. Quote
GiraffeDan Posted May 29, 2019 Report Posted May 29, 2019 I am having the exact same problem. parts from rock auto and any other parts store i can find give me the same part that is too big (2.69). i have a '46 plymouth deluxe (p15). where were you able to find the parts for our which was the correct number to look for? I saw your last post saying you updated the thread for new seals.. but i am not sure i found the right information? any chance you could dumb it down for me? Quote
61farnham Posted May 30, 2019 Author Report Posted May 30, 2019 Hi GiraffeDan, The seals i used for my rear axle were as follows - Inner - National 470950 2.44" Outer Diameter 1.375" Inner Diameter 0.5" Width Outer - National 6241s I never did find out if the axle in my car was the original one or not but the seals listed above fitted it and are still good so happy days. Would recommend pulling the old seals first to get the part no. off them before ordering new ones if this is practicable. Hope this helps Regards........ Simon. Quote
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