jmooner3 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 Hey Guys - I've been away from my project for a while, it's crazy weather here in VT too much ice to ski so I'm in the shop. Brake job on 1949 1/2 ton I know I had seen some good posts on this and searched but other than the tech page I really didn't find anytining on it. I have not located the right puller for the rear yet but the fronts aren't a walk in the park either. I pulled the drums, pulled the shoes and the rusted up cyls and tried to move the cam adjusters at the bottom, one is not seated all the way to the shoulder and neither will budge on either side am I missing someting? I backed off the castle nuts and pulled the two backing bolts so it's the backing plate is free wheeling. One of the shorter cam nuts looks stripped and so is the castle nut. I haven't hit it with the hot wrench yet but suspect that will free it up. Looks like these cams are also the bolt that holds on the steering linkage? I know many of you have converted with the rusty hope kit and eventually I would probably go disc but I've already got new shoes for front and will keep her stock for now. Anyone got a bucket of spare front 1/2 ton parts you want to sell a cam bolt or two out of? I'll need a source for wheel cyl, felt washers for behind shoe, and clips too. could use a couple spare lugs too. Any input on freeing up the cam bolts welcome. Thanks ! Quote
B1B Keven Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 Spray everything with PB Blaster for about a week. I'll dig around and see what kind of brake stuff I've got. Quote
MBF Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 NAPA had the brake cylinders for my 1 ton (same front and rear but left and right specific). If you need me to I can dig up the p/n's. I ended up soaking my concentric bolts and then took my impact hammer to them and they came right out. I neversiezed everything before I put it back together. Quote
Mike Aubin Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Here are two places near you that will have most of the brake stuff that you will need http://www.robertsmotorparts.com/store/trucks http://www.oldmoparts.com/Default.aspx Quote
B1B Keven Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Sorry, I'm no help on the bolts. Quote
jmooner3 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Posted January 11, 2014 Thanks guys - Can anyone tell me if the front brake wheel cylinders are the same for a 1 ton and half ton? I know the rears are different on the 1/2 ton. But I had a bunch of parts that came with my parts truck (50 1 ton) I put together all the brakes and got the parts truck running and driving because it was easy. My son and I are now back to the 1/2 ton. (In spring we'll move the motor etc. to the 1/2 ton) If the wheel cyls are the same I'll pull them and put them on the 49 half ton. Just need to get the brake shoe anchor bolts freed up and working properly- drenched in PB a couple days ago and will hit it with my air hammer today...Thanks for your help. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) according to VPW they are the same, depends on your drum size I believe....and they have the eccentric bolts. Edited January 11, 2014 by ggdad1951 Quote
JBNeal Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 The parts book shows different part numbers for 1/2, 3/4 & 1-ton front wheel cylinders for different years, but this was printed in '53. I pulled the drums off of the 1/2 & 1-ton parts trucks by the house, and other than the 10" drums & shoes on the 1/2 ton and the 11" drums & shoes on the 1-ton, the wheel cylinders & hardware look the same. The parts book also shows the same master cylinder used on 1/2, 3/4 & 1-tons for '48-'53. NAPA has only a listing for the '53, and 1/2, 3/4 & 1-tons use similar wheel cylinders. Rock Auto has a few more listings, and it looks like they are listing the same front wheel cylinders for 1/2, 3/4 & 1-tons, '48-'53. Looking back in the parts book, it appears they went from the step bore to the straight bore in late '52. Quote
jmooner3 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Posted January 12, 2014 GG and Marbles, thanks for the links. MB - Good idea on the air hammer, I torched the bolts red and hit them with little thumper while turning - popped right out. JB Thanks for taking the time to look at your parts trucks and consulting resources. The felt washers that go behind the shoe at the pivot cam appear to have metal on one side and were installed differently across the 4 locations, 2 were felt out two were metal out. Can someone confirm which way they are supposed to go? Quote
jmooner3 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Posted January 12, 2014 Looking for some more insight on the brake shoe anchor bolt set up for the front of B1B. Still need to know what surface faces out and what parts I need. VPW lists an oil washer, washer retainer, and spacer...for 11" I believe ours are 10" the set up on mine looks like it had a metal cup(washer retainer) and the felt washer no spacer. Questions: Do I need 3 parts? Which way does felt side face Another shout out if anyone has washers in good shape, cam bolts, oil washers, clips etc. from a disk brake conversion - I'm interested. I'm going to buy some parts anyway and cant find all parts from one place. VPW Felt oil washer 12:859054 Anchor bolt washer retainer 12:567129 Spacer 12:622121 Quote
JBNeal Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 The B-4 shop manual may be helpful, but I recommend getting your hands on a B-1 shop manual hard copy to flip through. I picked a reproduction up years ago, and made copies of specific pages that had instructions and/or diagrams that I would need to consult while working on the machine so that I could dirty up the copies & not the book. As for the assembly of the brake shoe, from the manual diagram it shows the brake shoe rides on the pivot bolt against the spacer on the backing plate, with the felt washer against the shoe, the metal cap over the felt, and the horseshoe clip in the pivot bolt groove over the metal cap. From the service section, I reckon there's mention of using light oil on the washers to keep the pivots lubricated when the shoes are to be adjusted every 10,000 miles. 1 Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Some additional picture info.... Note....Spacer washers used only on single wheel cylinder brake anchors- The washers are NOT used on dual cylinder fronts as on the cars and rears of 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks ton trucks. Edited January 13, 2014 by Dodgeb4ya 1 Quote
B1B Keven Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Another good source for brake parts: http://hagensautoparts.com/ Quote
MBF Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 I got my step bored cylinders for all four corners of my 49 at NAPA and they did have a listing by application for this year. If you need the p/n's let me know and I'll go out and start looking through my records. Quote
glasspacks Posted January 13, 2014 Report Posted January 13, 2014 I went through what you are going through right now, ....... with lots of penetrating oil and a small propane tourch I finally got the parts to move. enough was enough, I converted to disc brakes from a 70's camaro. Bought the kit from Butches Rod Shop,.... I haven't looked back since. Way better stopping power and safer. Bob. Vancouver Island Quote
jmooner3 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Posted January 13, 2014 Thx guys - The pictures solved the mystery, I have the B1 truck manual and there is no detail like what you guys provided. My truck didn't have the spacer or the right washers. VPW has all three available for 11" wheels. Hope they are the same size. Quote
JBNeal Posted January 13, 2014 Report Posted January 13, 2014 some exploded views are found in the shop manual, but more are found in the parts manual and are helpful in repairs. I've already buttoned up the parts trucks as the weather is about to change again, but according to the parts book, the 1/2 & 1-tons have different washers, spacers & horseshoe clips, with the 1-ton's 11" drums having larger sized parts. Quote
jmooner3 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Posted January 19, 2014 Ordered wheel cyl, hoses, etc from Roberts. VPW has the cam bolts, spacers and washers but they were the wrong size for the 1/2 ton 10" . If I can't find a source for the felt washers, spacers etc (3/4 inch) I may just use brass or stainless washers. Anyone have thoughts on this? Quote
Scruffy49 Posted January 19, 2014 Report Posted January 19, 2014 I went through what you are going through right now, ....... with lots of penetrating oil and a small propane tourch I finally got the parts to move. enough was enough, I converted to disc brakes from a 70's camaro. Bought the kit from Butches Rod Shop,.... I haven't looked back since. Way better stopping power and safer. Bob. Vancouver Island Did you need to use the factory hubs, or do the rotors come with them built in? I REALLY want to send the factory mess to a new home and upgrade the fronts along with the rears. My truck has very good condition hubs and drums, be a shame to toss them in the shred bin when I do have a chance to upgrade the fronts. The whole rear axle, with immaculate drums/backing plates is getting swapped as well. 40s consumables are too hard to get locally, and I don't do business with Roberts. Been burned a couple times, enough is enough. Gas pedal was wrong, arm rests were wrong, interior visors were wrong... I've heard he does a much better job now than 20 years ago, but... Quote
jmooner3 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Posted January 20, 2014 Would love to go disc but stock is what my poketbook can afford right now I had most of the parts already from my parts truck. Just needed a couple. Got the back drums off today using a front wheel drive puller from local autozone shop(Puller was $25 bucks and I can return it if I want to call it a rental. The flanges on the puller were a little off from mating up and on angle, I used it any way with an impact wrench and pop. Feels like I bent a lug on each side so I'll be looking for a couple spares both RH thread and LH thread -anyone got some to sell? I think with a little work the puller could be made to fit our trucks and not bugger up lugs. When I reinstall the drum, what's the procedure? Do I need to pull the key and re-seat it or leave it as is and just slide the drum hub on the spindle? Thx Quote
Scruffy49 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Posted January 21, 2014 Can free up 5 of each fairly soon. Need to pull and swap spring perches on the Ford 7.5" going into my 49 B1B-108. Real parking brakes instead of that useless output shaft band/drum! Quote
jmooner3 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Posted February 10, 2014 Hey Guys - I started reassembly of the rear brakes on the 49 1/2 ton today... I didn't take pictures as I usually do prior to dissassembly, because it seemed pretty straight forward and there is a picture in my manual. These are the divorced wheel cylinder set up(2 per wheel). The ony thing different is the new cylinders I bought, problem I have may be from parts?… Has anyone had issues with the springs not fitting back in? I’ve got the cam pivot bolts in, cyls in, the shoes in, 3/16 line in, but the two springs that pull the shoes together are hitting the cast housing of the new cylinders. Am I missing something? These brake cyl parts are from Roberts anyone else use them successfully? I was just thinking, I may try and mount the spring on the inside/backside of shoe. Pictures or advice welcome. Quote
HanksB3B Posted February 10, 2014 Report Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) jmooner3, Not sure if this helps but I owe you one and JB as well for posting the correct position of the felt washers and metal cap. Seems my front brakes are set up under the shoe (wrong) in my thread about Factory Brake Rebuild. This may be contributing to the binding problem I'm having recently) In answer to your problem: "the two springs that pull the shoes together are hitting the cast housing of the new cylinders" I think I got the rears correct so here's what they look like on my 1951 B3B 1/2 ton. Edited February 10, 2014 by HanksB3B Quote
jmooner3 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Posted February 10, 2014 Hank - The greatest thing about this forum - is we all help each other through the discussion! Picture worth a 1000 words - I have mine set up just like your picture, and the damn springs are in contact with the cast housing where the little capilary line hooks the devorced cylinders together...I need to go back out to the shop tighten everything up to ensure I'm not missing something...but the aftermarket wheel cyl looks to be different than the OEM. As for the fronts I believe there is a washer between the backing plate and the shoe then the felt & cap then the clip. The washers behind the shoe have a little taper inside the hole, like a chamfered edge. THANKS for the picture of the rear- where did you get your wheel cylinders? Anyone else experieince issues with aftermarket wheel cylinders contacting the springs? Quote
Kensoldtruck Posted February 16, 2014 Report Posted February 16, 2014 Where are you located. I did the front brake disk conversion and am currently installing a different rear end so I have all of the parts. I had a brake job done on both the front and rear brakes just before the conversions. Quote
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