Flywheel for motor swap

[fivelug]

switching from a 218 to a chrysler 265, chrysler has a eight bolt crank, Understand a six hole flywheel with 146t will work for my 10 inch clutch and fours speed manual. would appreciate any information on starter issues and overall concept.

[Don Coatney]

Suggest you do a mock up and take careful measurements. The Crashler flywheel may have a different mounting flange than the 218 flywheel. What is the 6 bolt flywheel from and what 4 speed transmission? Is this a truck application?

[fivelug]

Hi Don,

 

Ironic that you replied, During my quest your name has popped up several times with the most recent being a very enjoyable conversation with George Asche. Appreciate you have reached out,  Admitedly I have limited knowledge about this topic so any info is good info, sorting it all out is another story.

 

My project is a 1947 dodge 1/2 totally stock with an original 218 and original four spped tranny. clutch is 10 inch, flywheel is four bolt 146t. I have not obtained any parts for the conversion thus far hence my questions. The parts I mentioned came about from reading forums.

 

The 265 I have is a C53 chrysler spitfire. It came with a fluid drive 8 bolt crank. it is totally rebuilt and worth saving.

 

I would like to limit changes as much as possible but understand some will be required. Before you ask, the reason for the switch to the spitfire 265 is "just because".I desire to give this ole dodge truck  a new life and still have something just a little different than the other guys. Not pretty but a reliable driver. Down the road I most likley will be doing some business with George Asche but for now I just want to get the truck roadworthy. I consider your advise as golden.

 

Thanks

[wayfarer]

Yup, pay attention to the flywheel/starter interface.  The 23" 201-208-218 has a different flywheel (most are 4-bolt) than the rest of the L6 engines due to the distance from the block to the crank flange (1" vs 1.1875"). If you have a 230 wheel (6 or 8 bolt) it should work with no issues on a 25" assembly. Checking on the garage floor is easier than fixing the problem when it is in the car/truck.

[fivelug]

Have noticed the innerface difference with the two starters I have also the torque connverter flywheel is 172t verses 146 on my fourspeed flywheel. I do have a 25inch dodge block I assume is a 230 with a four speed but is also a four bolt.

[wayfarer]

You might want to check that engine id code.

The 230 is a 23" engine.

I would be shocked to see a 4-bolt crank pattern on any 25" crank.

The 172 tooth ring gear started in 1957 on the v-8's, and the crank flange projection of the pre-62 v-8 is the same 1.1875" as the L-6.

The bell housing will be different between the 146 and 172 wheel simply due to the wheel diameter and the resulting starter location. 

[Don Coatney]

Thanks for the kind words. Sounds like a fun project. I have installed a 25" Desoto engine (with an 8 bolt crank flange) in my 48 Plymouth. I used the 4 bolt Plymouth flywheel and the Plymouth bell housing. Due to the difference in flywheel flange off set I had to modify my bellhousing starter mount as pictured below. I did this after mocking all my stuff up and taking careful measurements. I also installed a 12 volt starter from a 55 Plymouth but the dementions on this starter are the same as the 48 six volt starter.

 

You mentioned that you have a 25" Dodge block. The only 25" Dodge blocks are Caniadian made. All American made Dodge engines are 23" unless the engine came from a really big Dodge truck. So I am assuming that the 265 Crashler engine you have is two inches longer than your stock engine. On my car I was able to use the stock rear engine mounts and the stock rear crossmember. I moved my radiator 2" forward. I also had to modify my front crossmember but your truck may be different than my car. Hope this information helps.

 

 

[fivelug]

Good stuff, Isn't Your 25" DeSoto motor basicly the same block as my spitfire? Did you have to modify any thing to make the for bolt flywheel match up with 8 bolt crank? Did a machine shop do the work on your bellhousing? What about the pilot bearing, I read where some of the fluid drive cranks were not drilled out to receive the bearing? My block is on an engine stand and cannot see if it can take a bearing. Sorry about the volley of questions.

 

The Dodge 25 inch block with the very heavy four bolt flywheel, 146t  did come out of a big 1940 dodge dually, I beleive the seller said it was a 21/2 ton.  motor #TTT2*197403*. If not a 230 what could it be?

 

Thus far (following forum info). I have installed New rear motor mounts assuming I will be able to use the original bell housing, moved the front cross member (motor mount) forward two inches, Frame was factory drilled so just had to remove original rivets. It seems there are radiator mounting holes two inches forward from the originals, hopefully that should allow for the 25" block to fit right in.

 

The original 218 is stuck but not ruined, and the other 25" seems to be a candidate for a rebuild. I was going to load them up and head for the scap metal farm but.................should I keep them? It seems the Dodge population is growing and maybe their worth saving.

 

I eliminated the idea of using a four bolt flywheel because of the additional torque created by the larger ci 265. It does not seem you are concerned about the four bolt. Any advice?

[fivelug]

To, Wayfarer

 

Your info on the 172 inch flywheel makes sense as the fellow who did the rebuild on my six cyl spitfire thought the starter (six Volt) and flywheel did not match up. So it seems maybe the flywheel/torque converter may have come from a 57 or later with 12volt?

 

My bell housing is from the 218 and has brass shims for the clutch release shaft. Do you know who if anyone sells the bearings for the shaft as well as the brake and clutch arms?

 

Thanks for the info.

[Don Coatney]

My Desoto engine is the same external size as your Crashler engine. The 4 bolt flywheel is a direct bolt on to the 8 hole crankshaft flange with no modifications but the holes only line up one way. Eight bolts are required if you have fluid drive but not required for a standard clutch setup. It should hold up well as long as you use a grade 8 bolt with a long enough shoulder to extend past the sheer point. Pictured below are the bolts I used. If you need some of these bolts let me know.

 

My car bellhousing is much different from a truck bellhousing. I had to severly modify my bellhousing as I installed a T-5 five speed overdrive transmission from a shiverlay S-10. I fabricated a pilot bearing mount and am using a bearing not a bushing as pictured below. You might consider installing a T-5 as it has full syncros and much better ratios and a 30% reduction 5th gear. Much better than the crash box 4 speed.

 

You might want to contact Elmer Strange as he has a T-5 in his truck and I believe he also has a 265CI engine. You might be able to find him on the Inlinners forum. I believe he is a brother in law to Tom Stovebolt Langdon. Pictured below is his engine.

 

I do not have a book listing the truck engine numbers but perhaps forum member dodgeb4ya can assist. If he does not chime in send him a PM.

 

 

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I put a 265 chrysler in my 52 Dodge PU years ago-1974. Just reinstalled the stock 4 bolt flywheel and 4 speed. Moved the radiator forward 2" and re-shaped the front dish out for the lower front pulley and damper. Also had to flip the oil pan sump to the front-after some welding. It still runs well to this day.

[fivelug]

Great posts, thank you both, It seems I am inching closer to some hands on. Will definatley investigate the T-5 possibility Don. Appreciate the photos, seeing the product  definitley works better than my imagination. 

 

Have a great Day!

[wayfarer]

Not knowing what your end-goal is, I'll suggest that you also look at Robert Horne's 5-speed swap for another option.

I am unable to paste anything here so search for: 5 speed, not t5

[HanksB3B]

My Desoto engine is the same external size as your Crashler engine. The 4 bolt flywheel is a direct bolt on to the 8 hole crankshaft flange with no modifications but the holes only line up one way. Eight bolts are required if you have fluid drive but not required for a standard clutch setup. It should hold up well as long as you use a grade 8 bolt with a long enough shoulder to extend past the sheer point. Pictured below are the bolts I used. If you need some of these bolts let me know.

 

My car bellhousing is much different from a truck bellhousing. I had to severly modify my bellhousing as I installed a T-5 five speed overdrive transmission from a shiverlay S-10. I fabricated a pilot bearing mount and am using a bearing not a bushing as pictured below. You might consider installing a T-5 as it has full syncros and much better ratios and a 30% reduction 5th gear. Much better than the crash box 4 speed.

 

You might want to contact Elmer Strange as he has a T-5 in his truck and I believe he also has a 265CI engine. You might be able to find him on the Inlinners forum. I believe he is a brother in law to Tom Stovebolt Langdon. Pictured below is his engine.

 

I do not have a book listing the truck engine numbers but perhaps forum member dodgeb4ya can assist. If he does not chime in send him a PM.

 

 

 

 

Whos's engine is that, yours Don ?  I don't think I've ever seen it before. t looks like it's installed in a car/truck frame...How muck hp would a well machined and dual carb equipped engine put out?

 

Thanks

 

Hank 

[Don Coatney]

Hank;

The engine I pictured belongs to Emner Strange. I believe he hangs out on the inliners forum.

[fivelug]

Don,

One of your photo's showed a flywheel set up to take a bearing for the pilot shaft. Is the housing for the bearing something you milled or off the shelf. As it stands today I am leaning towards the set up you developed for your car. Having said that could you give me a bit more info on the bearing set up. Also from what I have learned you may have also cut the tranny shaft, correct?

 

thnaks

[fivelug]

Another dumb question

 

At the rear of my CH265 on the left side of the block there is a hole with a rubber "O" ring seal. I assume it would carry oil to the fluid drive tranny which I am not going to use. I" guessing the hole will need to be plugged to accomidte the change to a different tranny. The plug (I have two in other blocks) is machined for a "key stock" type tool which I do not have access to. Already broke the shoulder off of one trying to use a socket extension.

 

Easy fix would be to just purchase a know plug but don't know the spec's. Any expert advice?

 

thanks

[wayfarer]

Without seeing a pic of the hole I would ask if it has a smooth bore...if so, install a cup-type core plug...just not sure what you refer to as a 'key-stock' plug.

If the existing plug is threaded into the block then replace with similar. Some of the factory installed screw-in plugs have to be drilled out as they are incredibly tight.

[fivelug]

The hole is threaded, Key stock meaning square and recessed. Your correct in stating tight fit, I have already broke one plug I have in a spare block. The block I am using does not have a plug so I just need to spend some extra time figuring out what will fit, just assumed someone reading posts has already walked this mile and knows the specs of the plug.

 

Thanks

[Merle Coggins]

Try heating up the plug red hot, then let it cool down again. That may break the bond that is holding it in so tight.

[Don Coatney]

Don,

One of your photo's showed a flywheel set up to take a bearing for the pilot shaft. Is the housing for the bearing something you milled or off the shelf. As it stands today I am leaning towards the set up you developed for your car. Having said that could you give me a bit more info on the bearing set up. Also from what I have learned you may have also cut the tranny shaft, correct?

 

thnaks

I fabficated the bearing mount to fit the taper in the flywheel. I did a lot of measureing to insure everything would work. Your truck will be different than my car. Langdon sells a T-5 kit for a truck. Check with him on what might work for you.

 

Follow this link for a lot of pictures on my T-5 install. But as I said your truck will be different.

 

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DonCoatney/library/#/user/DonCoatney/library/T-5?sort=3&page=1&_suid=138654815030309367673241987959

 

Can you post a picture og the threaded plug in the back of your engine? I dont think I have a picture of my engine with the bellhousing off.

[40desoto]

On 12/6/2013 at 2:04 PM, Don Coatney said:

Thanks for the kind words. Sounds like a fun project. I have installed a 25" Desoto engine (with an 8 bolt crank flange) in my 48 Plymouth. I used the 4 bolt Plymouth flywheel and the Plymouth bell housing. Due to the difference in flywheel flange off set I had to modify my bellhousing starter mount as pictured below. I did this after mocking all my stuff up and taking careful measurements. I also installed a 12 volt starter from a 55 Plymouth but the dementions on this starter are the same as the 48 six volt starter.

 

You mentioned that you have a 25" Dodge block. The only 25" Dodge blocks are Caniadian made. All American made Dodge engines are 23" unless the engine came from a really big Dodge truck. So I am assuming that the 265 Crashler engine you have is two inches longer than your stock engine. On my car I was able to use the stock rear engine mounts and the stock rear crossmember. I moved my radiator 2" forward. I also had to modify my front crossmember but your truck may be different than my car. Hope this information helps.

 

 

Don, I know this is an old thread but I find it very interesting that you had to shave some meat off you bellhousing to reach the flywheel teeth.

Heres what I have , let me know what you recommend:

I recently purchased a  1953 Windsor 265 engine that came with a powerflight so I couldnt use that flywheel as I am adapting a T5 on it.

I have two flywheel, one that came out of my 1940 25" that has 8 holes and one that came from a place unknown that has 4 holes.  Im tempted to use the 4 hole flywheel since its about 1/2 the weight of the other.  Also I measured the distance from the starter mounting to the flywheel teeth and on the 4 hole flywheel the distance is about 1/2 cm further than the 8 hole heavy flywheel.

Now Im leaning to go with the heavier flywheel for fit but Im concerned of its weight.  Why did you decide to go with the 4 bolt flywheel?  was weight a deciding factor (flywheel weight that is.  LOL).  Do you think weight is a major factor given that Im installing  a manual trans?

Any insight and advice is greatly appreciated.

 

 

[Don Coatney]

I used a 4 bolt flywheel because that is all I had. Suggest you measure carefully as your components may be different than what I used.

[wiboater]

Ok , I'm putting together an engine I had rebuilt. Guy I bought it from said it came out of a powerwagon. 230 engine, Crank had 8 holes my old engine had 4 hole crank. Now after just trying to put the clutch back in I discovered the crank flange is about 3/16 to 1/4 inch farther back. Is it possible to have the flywheel machined out enough to make it the same distance as the old one? Or possibly making a spacer between the bell housing and engine to move it ahead 3/16?   I have a spare old flywheel that needs refacing.  The truck is a 36 Dodge LC

Edited November 15, 2019 by wiboater
left out something

[wayfarer]

There are only two parts that make this confusing; the crank and the flywheel.

The little  23"  201-208-218 crank flange does not extend as far from the face of the block as the rest

of the engines;  1" vs 1.185"  

The flywheel for these cranks will then have a deeper offset to compensate because the bellhousings

were not changed and the starter still needed to engage.  These flywheels will generally have only 4-bolts.

 

The easy way out for you is to use a 230-style flywheel.