My Overdrive Upgrade

[Young Ed]

Update after the weekend. Got some details wrapped up. Found a bolt on the floor for the clutch pan and realized I hadn't finished that task. Got that done. Mounted the relay on the drivers inner fender just above the headlight relay VR and starter solenoid. I guess its become an electrical center..... I put the removable floor section back in and it looks like it pushes the speedometer cable down just far enough that its touching the shift arm. Looks like I will need to order up a longer cable and reroute it somewhere else. Would it be acceptible to put it back down the passenger side and have it loop around underneath the trans? Not sure that won't be too tight of a bend for it.

I have both styles of factory kickdowns and neither will work on a p15. The throttle linkage is different which the OD version might fit but it would require redoing the return spring and getting rid of the throttle cable. The carb version is for the newer carb that uses 3 screws to hold the base and mine is only 2 which means the kickdown switch bracket would only be held on my 1 screw. So I need to design either a new carb mount or throttle mount kickdown or decide on a spot on the inside.

[martybose]

I wouldn't bother with the carb-mounted kickdown; most of us who have retrofitted an OD unit put a pushbutton or a switch on the shift lever.  You flick the switch, lift off of the gas momentarily, and when you put the throttle down again you will be back in direct drive.

 

Marty

[knuckleharley]

You should be able to push it backwards as long as your lockout switch is in the correct position.

Not on my 58 Rambler stationwagon with the factory overdrive.  I am assuming the overdrives from similar years are all the same because the car manufacturers didn't make them anyhow. They bought them all.

[blueskies]

Looks good Ed...

 

Pete

[Young Ed]

Looks good Ed...

 

Pete

 

Thanks Pete means a lot from you.

[steveplym]

Yeah for the kick down all you need is a normally closed switch.  I've got a push button under the dash.  Like Marty said, let off the accelerator and hit the button.  Hit the accelerator and your back in direct drive. Easy set up. 

[Young Ed]

Either of you guys have a pic of where you put the cable? Not much room for mine with the dual heaters. That heater core takes up a lot of real estate behind there. Thats part of the reason I wanted the throttle linkage mounted kickdown too.

[DJ194950]

Either of you guys have a pic of where you put the cable? Not much room for mine with the dual heaters. That heater core takes up a lot of real estate behind there. Thats part of the reason I wanted the throttle linkage mounted kickdown too.

 

Many other brand of cars w/ OD used a switch that mounted under the floor boards through a drilled hole that contacted the throttle pedal. Had one from a 54 Furd (engine and trans.)in my 37 Ply. cpe.many  years ago. New switches of the type are still avail. from cole hersee, (but can be hard to find at times!)  Have seen them on ebay under other car brands and OD switch.

I do have (somewhere the part # for same.

If you use an electric switch as other have suggested, you will almost never use the cable, period!

Put it almost anywhere you can reach. Under the seat??

 

One of many possibilities. I can email my change over to almost total electric operation if you like,(involves using 2 relays though!).

 

It's your choice, your car, enjoy the OD, I surely do!

 

Doug

bwwiring.pdf

[Young Ed]

Made a little bracket to hold the kickdown next to the cable. Should work and no extra holes in the dash.

 

 

Lastly my source for the metal. A piece of my original P15 fender that was destroyed in the great crash of 08.

 

[steveplym]

Looks good Ed.  For the speedo cable I think I bought a new one from Roberts and it was long enough to reach over the trans and around.  Haven't had any problems with it. 

[martybose]

Looks good Ed.  For the speedo cable I think I bought a new one from Roberts and it was long enough to reach over the trans and around.  Haven't had any problems with it. 

On my car the speedo had always been off due to the different tire size, so I bought a speedo gearbox to correct that, and got a one foot speedo cable to connect it, since there wasn't enough room right on the gearbox.  The one foot length gave me enough to work with my OD unit.

 

Marty

[blueskies]

I had a stock kickdown switch mounted on my dash for a while too, but found that the spring pressure in the switch was too much for my finger since it was designed to be pressed with the foot throttle.  One of the reasons I went with the switch mounted on the shifter...

 

Pete

[hkestes41]

I had an extra unused hole in my Key / Heater control panel that had a plug in it. So I popped out the plug and I ran my cable through there. Used the stock kickdown switch and put it through an existing hole on the bottom of the dash at the far left. The hole was not quite big enough for the switch so I ran a drill bit through it to open it up just a hair.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2013 by hkestes41

[knuckleharley]

I had a stock kickdown switch mounted on my dash for a while too, but found that the spring pressure in the switch was too much for my finger since it was designed to be pressed with the foot throttle.  One of the reasons I went with the switch mounted on the shifter...

 

Pete

There was such a thing as a overdrive unit on a fluid shift transmission?

 

What years were the available?

Edited September 11, 2013 by knuckleharley

[Young Ed]

OK deadline time. Car show in WI tomorrow morning. Got the car all buttoned up. Wife helped-she put the removable floor panel in by herself. She even used my brand new air ratched to finish it that I haven't even gotten to use yet!

Just finished the test run and the post test run diagnostics. Yes it didn't go into overdrive. Grounding the kickdown makes the relay click and putting power directly to the relay makes the solenoid click(it may have been clicking when I grounded the kickdown it was hard to hear). So we suspect govenor issue. It dawned on me as I was putting this in that when I removed it there were no wires connected to either the lockout switch or the solenoid. The kickdown linkage under the hood was also taken apart. So I suspect I now have discovered why that car went to the junkyard.

 

The good news is the trans shifts beautifully and all my wiring seems to be correct.

[steveplym]

Does it take off in direct drive?  Cable pushed in?

[james curl]

You do not have to use a wire from the governor to the solenoid if you use a toggle switch to power the solenoid.  If I remember correctly you run power to the governor which is normally open until reaching a per-determined rpm where it closes and transfer power to the solenoid to activate it.

[DJ194950]

Try putting a temp. wire to the relay at the terminal were the wire from the govenor wire via the reverse lockout swich  hooks up.

 

Drive the car in 2 or 3rd and ground it to a knwon good groud in the car somewhere. This will bypass to ground that comes from the governor to the lockout and to the kinkdown switch to the relay that gives power to the relay.

The gas must be let off of when grounded for the OD prawl to engage, (the drive line must slow down very slightly for engagment to happen).

Difficult to do on jackstands, easier to just drive it.

 

If that works check the reverse lockout switch for continuity when in any position_except reverse, thats OK. If good remove the govenor and remove outter cover and remove old grease,brake clean, blow out with air and lightly grease with a light grease. Put a drill tightened on the the shaft and spin slowly until the weights move outward. Should spin out at a fairly slow drill speed.

 

If you still have some time bypass as stated before hook up with a temp switch to ground to engage OD when wanted for now.

Just remember to disengage before trying to take off in first again. NO reverse with it on!!!

 

Have a good time at the show.

 

Doug

[Young Ed]

Thanks Doug Car show was today. Car drove just fine same as it always did. Probably close to 150 miles round trip. Tried to OD a few times along the way and still nothing. Tomorrow more testing. I hope if the governor is bad it can be fixed by cleaning. Those things aren't cheap!

[DJ194950]

Thanks Doug Car show was today. Car drove just fine same as it always did. Probably close to 150 miles round trip. Tried to OD a few times along the way and still nothing. Tomorrow more testing. I hope if the governor is bad it can be fixed by cleaning. Those things aren't cheap!

 

Sorry about the timing of my response, the other posts were early this morning and I took a chance the show was tommorow.

 

The govenors really ALMOST never go bad, just sticky from old grease, there is a set of points that also get dirty and cleaning them at the same time is tottaly advised. Flywights swig outward and lift? to close the points to ground.at to the terminal.

 

Removal of the govenor for service can be a real challange. there is a 6 point place to put a wrench for removal,BUT that must have been some special shaped wrench to get to it tighten/loosen the govenor!!

 

I've used channel lock plyers on the lowest point on the gov. casing and did manage to get gov. loose without damage on the two OD trans. i've worked on.. The housing is cast iron and fairly strong. Several repair articles i've seen on the r-10's said the same thing and the way to remove.

There are no tricks on removal, loosen, screw out , no alignments to be concerned about etc.

I've not found any info (repair manuel/parts diagrams)  that indicates any type of gasket used either? I just put a little permatex on the threads.

 

Hope you get it operational soon.

 

Doug

[Young Ed]

I had to replace the wire on mine so I had it out once already. I just used a pipe wrench. Might be a little harder under the car but I think I can manage.

[DJ194950]

Great your already on top this.

 

Doug

[Young Ed]

OD seemed to engage with the jumper wire. Pulled the gov and cleaned the contacts and the little copper bar. I didn't make it out to the highway for a better test drive but the around town stuff makes me think its working.

[DJ194950]

With the ground jumper wire as described you should be actually to engage 1st over 2nd over and 3rd. over just by grounding in when in any gear and letting off the gas for a second. Drop back out of overdrive by removing the ground and let off the gas again.

Reapply gas and go again.

 

Way to check op.

 

Doug

[Young Ed]

Got it out on the highway a couple times yesterday. I drove it to work and back and then to a local cruise in. The OD works great. The speed at which it will go in to OD seems higher than its supposed to be. I do have a 3.73 which could be the cause of that.