1943 Plymouth

[TodFitch]

. . .Contrary to what might think, although B/O only models were mandated after December 15th (this was in place before Pearl Harbor) . . .

Isn't December 15th after December 7th or am I mis-reading this? Do you mean that the rules regarding BO only were issued before the 7th but were to be effective on the 15th?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Re: Starter control -  De Soto used a starter-pedal on the floor through 1942.  After the war, they went to a dash button.

 

I would presume that Dodge and Plymouth also kept the floor starter until after the war.

 

 

The Craigslist " '43"  is a "full-chrome" '42... it may have been held-back and released during the war, and therefore being titled as a "1943"...

It has always been my understanding that once factories converted to war-time production, there were no more civilian vehicles produced until late 1945...  the only vehicles being produced 1943-'45 were trucks, specifically GI versions, like the Chevy & GMC four & six-wheel drives, Studebaker US-6, Dodge power-wagons, etc.

 

Early 42 DeSoto's had the pedal starter and later had the push button starter on the left side of dash.

[B-Watson]

All manufacturers stockpiled 1942 and even some 1941 models.  They would be released with government approval to people who needed a car for their living - doctors come to mind (they made house calls back then).  Production of cars ended around the end of January, 1942, and the assembly lines were ripped up to produce war materiel.   Car production did not begin again until the fall of 1945.  Thus leftover 1942 models from time to time come up as 1943 or 1944 models.   That was the year they were sold , not built.

Some trucks were built during 1942 through 1945, in the case of Chrysler they were 2-ton trucks.  Other sizes of trucks were also stockpiled and sold to persons in need of a truck for a living. 

 

The military did not freeze production, the federal government did.  The US was still governed by Congress.  Cars owned by the military were generally ordered from the manufacturers and thus had the black-out headlamps, etc.  There was a period prior to the end of production when the military was taking any car they could get.  They had to get mobile, fast.

 

Cars stockpiled for civilian use, though, were the basic vehicles as they rolled off the assembly line, blackout models and non-blackout models. 

 

When looking at car "production" in the 1940's, beware of reports titled "Shipments".   "Shipments" report the number of cars (or trucks) a company ships from their assembly plants.  Shipping could include rail, truck, boat or even driveaway by the new owner or dealer.  "Production" is the number of cars that roll off the assembly line and then usually parked in the assembly plant storage yard to await shipping.

 

A production report for cars will have zeroes for the years 1943 and 1944 with very low numbers for 1942 and 1945.    Shipments will be low for 1942 and then drop to zero by the end of 1944, usually.  1945 will be low and then pick up for the remainder of the 1940's.

 

Taking about 1943 P15 models, a few years ago a fellow showed up at a Mopar show with a 1942 Plymouth P15.  According to the serial number book he had, the serial number was a 1942.   The serial numbers for 1942 were all "x,xxx,xxx and up".   Turned out the book was printed before the end of 1942 production.  

Edited August 22, 2013 by B-Watson

[De Soto Frank]

Ed K -  Nice to see you here !

 

 

Welcome aboard, and thank you for the additional input !

 

 

De Soto Frank

[42 DeSoto Fifth Avenue]

The attached file is of two sales transactions at Kline Motors.I hope it is legible as this is my first time to upload a scan.

 

One is from May 23rd 1942 the other from 1943. THe first is a 42 Plymouth sold to another dealer. There were 5-6 transactions for that date, most were Plymouths. I think that there may have been some sort of action  by the Feds and/or Chrysler that released for sale a number of cars that had been frozen on January 1st, 1942.

The second one from 1943 looks to be to a buyer. Note that the car is loaded with option packages, including the P.B.S (push button starter) and white side wall tires. white side walls were embargod by the Feds prior to the release of the 43 models so officially no cars came from the factory with them. But depending on when this car left DeSoto in Detroit it very well could have as at the end of production after 12/7 the stock of parts apparently was cleaned out.

 

I've come across two 42 DeSotos in my travels that point to this.On one the steering wheel was from a 42 Dodge. The car was being restored by the son-in-law of the original owner and he told me his in-laws claim it came that way from the dealer.

The other was another 42 DeSoto that I could not get a serial number off of in order to see when it was built. The entire interior was 42 Dodge - door panels, upholstery, window trim.

 

 

 

 

WWII car sales_0003.pdf

[TodFitch]

The attached file is of two sales transactions at Kline Motors.I hope it is legible as this is my first time to upload a scan. . .

 

Both come up in my lists as '42 models. The DeSoto is within 2000 of the end of production which seems about right for ones that might have been withheld. The Plymouth is much earlier in the numbering sequence. Did they build them longer or were more of them in storage at the factory or elsewhere? Interesting to ponder.

 

Edit: Just noticed the "Carrying charges" from 11/28/41 for the Plymouth. Could it have been a car that was already on the dealer's lot when orders came to stop selling them?

[B-Watson]

When the government placed restrictions on sales of new cars, that included any cars stockpiled by manufacturers and all new cars in dealer stocks.  So, that November, 1941, Plymouth may have been one of the cars still unsold when the edict was announced. 

 

Not all cars rolling off the assembly line now, or in 1941, had a buyer.  Many cars were parked and stored by the factory for future dealer orders and many dealers ordered cars to have on hand for prospective customers to look at and test drive, and hopefully buy.

 

Back in July, 1965, my father purchased his first new car, a 1965 Dodge 330 4dr sedan with slant six and Torqueflite.  It had been sitting on the lot for a few months, as had a couple of US-built 1965 Dodge Polara sedans.  Chrysler Canada had a UAW strike from late January through early March 1965 and someone decided to import cars from Detroit.  So, a thousand or so US-built cars were imported during February, 1965.  Thus those two US Polara sedans had been on the dealer's lot since February - 5 months.  These special imports pop up from time time.  There is a 1965 Valiant V-200 4oor sedan in the Toronto area that was imported and shipped to Century Motors in Winnipeg. 

 

By the way, just as there were restrictions on the sale of new cars during WW II, there were also restrictions on sales of used cars.  As well as items such as tires, batteries, gasoline, etc.

[BobT-47P15]

The car in the ad is a 4 door.  The other one shown above is a coupe......obviously not same vehicle,

 

 

 

[austinsailor]

As the owner of a 42 Plymouth 2 dr sedan, no chrome, I'd be interested in the history and timing of my car.

I'll get the SN tomorrow and see if anyone can tell me more!

[B-Watson]

1942 Plymouth

P14S (DeLuxe) and P14C (Special DeLuxe)

Windsor 9,829,856 to 9,836,986 - 7,131

Begin blackout 9,834,922 - 2,065

 

P14C Special DeLuxe  

Lynch Road  11,399,501 to 11,494,048 -  94,548

Begin blackout 11,474,830  - 19,219

 

Evansville 20,148,001 to 20,164,435 - 16,435

Begin blackout 20,160,112 - 4,324

 

Los Angeles 3,297,001 to 3,306,756 -  9,756

Begin blackout 3,305,324  - 1,433

   

 

P14S DeLuxe       

Lynch Road 15,135,501 to 15,153,935 - 18,435  

Begin blackout 15,150,781 - 3,155

 

Evansville 22,037,001 to 22,041,356  -  4,356

Begin blackout 22,040,399  -  958

 

Los Angeles 3,134,501 to 3,136,266  -  1,766    

Begin blackout 3,136,084  -  183                                                      

 

 

The first row of serial numbers in each group shows the beginning and ending numbers for the model year with the total number of cars built.

 

Second row shows the beginning serial number for the blackout models, with the total built. 

 

Edited August 27, 2013 by B-Watson

[austinsailor]

mine is P14,   22038955, so it looks like Evansville pre-blackout.  It has no chrome, the headlight rims, taillights and bumpers were not chromed.

[Mark D]

Been tempted to go have a look at this car.  It's not too far from home and quite near where I bought mine.

 

 

The car in the ad is a 4 door.  The other one shown above is a coupe......obviously not same vehicle,

 

 

 

[jcmiller]

Thanks for posting that info B-Watson!  Is that from the Chrysler of Canada 1942 parts book?  Mine is 3299999, so LA, pre-blackout.

[42 DeSoto Fifth Avenue]

FYI This is from one of my resources listing Federal actions. The question was asked upstream about the "blackout" regulations. You can see from this list that the regulation went into effect 10/27/41 for implementation beginning 12/15/1941. No doubt Chrysler was planning for this even before the end of October. I have never discovered any sales or dealer literature that provided buyers information on the color schemes, changes to interiors, price changes (?), etc for the "Blackout" DeSotos. There is one magazine ad for the new "Blackout" DeSoto. It appears to be done by the same artist who did the production ads in the fall of 1941 that appeared in Saturday Evening Post, etc. It appeared in the January 17th(?) issue of Collier's Magazine. It notable not only for showing the b/o paint scheme  -dark green with light green trim -- but it also shows the car with the hide-away headlights open. The car is emerging from a tunnel.  I also have a supplemental parts list issued mid December. About a third the size of the parts manual issued in September, 1941 it shows the changes and subsequent new part numbers for painted trim, etc. It also shows some production changes made between the beginning of production in early August and most likely early November when this went to press. I saw one for sale in EBay for the 42 Dodge so I'd assume one was also produced for Plymouth.

Has anyone come across ads or literature for Blackout model Chryslers, Dodges, or Plymouths?

 

 

Government Orders Curtailing Passenger Car Production

Limitation Orders  - Base period August 1938 to July 1941

L-2.      Effective 9-13-1941

            Production limiting individual company quotas, August through November, 1941

Interpretation No. 1   Effective 12-23-1941

Production for governmental use, exempted from quotas. Removes from “quotas” sales by producers or dealers when the government or certain designated agencies take title, or contract to take title at time of sale.

L-2-a    Effective 10-24-1941

            December, 1941 production fixed, by companies.

L-2-b    Effective 10-27-1941

Brightwork eliminated in production, except on bumpers and bumper guards of new passenger cars after December 15, 1941.

            Amendment No. 1   Effective 12.10.1941

Production of certain Brightwork parts permitted. Use of all other “Brightwork” inventory permitted to 12.31.1941, if treated to destroy appearance as “Brightwork.”

L-2-c   Effective 11.7.1941

               January, 1942 production quotas fixed, by companies.

L-2-d   Effective 12.10.1941

               February, 1942 production quotas fixed by companies (later revoked)

L-2-e   Effective 12.24.1941

December, 1941 and January, 1942 production further reduced. Permits some previously authorized December, 1941 production in January, 1942 – also permits use of certain “Brightwork” authorized by Amendment No.1 to L-2-b to be used in January, 1942. Spare Tire Ban  --- prevents sale or delivery of any new car with more than four new tires.

            Amendment No. 1   Effective 1-23-1942

               Restored January, 1942 quotas to those originally specified in L-2-c.

L-2-f   Effective 1.1.1942

               Prohibits sale of new automobiles.

            Amendment No. 1 Effective 1-8-1942

Ban removed on sale to designated government agencies, to A-1-j rated orders and to certain prime contractors.

Amendment No. 2 Effective 1-14-1942

Sale ban extended to February 2, 1942

Amendment No. 3 Effective 1-20-1942

Repossession, retaking or transfer of title permitted for contracts entered into prior to 1-1-42

L-2-g   Effective 1-21-1942

February, 1942 quotas established by L-2-d revoked. Completion of January, 1942 quotas permitted by Amendment No. 1 to L-2-e, to be completed before February 11, 1942

L-2-h     Effective 1-31-1942

               Cadillac production of 719 ambulance chassis allowed up to January 31, 1942

L-2-i       Effective 3-9-1942

               Prevents dispersal of inventories.

 

(SOURCE – The passenger car limitation orders were issued by the Way Production Board and its predecessors.)

 

The information above was taken from page 42 of “Automotive News 1942 Almanac    9^th Annual Review and Reference Book”  from the collection of Ed Katzenberger.

[Brandon S]

Having just built one piece by piece, 100% postitive ID as a '42 P-14.  Outside trim is non-blackout but the inside horn button is- a 3-screw swap though and have both in my parts pile.