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42 DeSoto Fifth Avenue

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About 42 DeSoto Fifth Avenue

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  • Location
    Albuquerque, NM
  • My Project Cars
    1940 P10 Convertible coupe

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    Albuquerque, NM
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    the usual

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  1. Somewhere in my basement I have a working (at least when I stored it) record player/filmstrip projector that dealers used for these film strips. I need to dig it out. I know that one of my filmstrip/records is the dealer introduction to the 1954 DeSoto Coronado.
  2. Is it a 6 or an 8? If it is a 6 cylinder then a lot of your 'extra' DeSoto parts will fit. If it's an 8 cylinder not a lot will interchange. Ed K
  3. I too, have some non-Imperial film strips that I would like to transfer to YOuTube or other media where they can be useful. Does anyone have a line on what's the process for transferring? I suspect that hardest part is the film strip projector adapter. I think I also may have a couple of sets with records and the booklets, etc but no film strip. I also have an old VHS tape of the Ross Roy intro for the 1942 De Soto De Luxe model. I think I got this back in the early 90s. Wish I had the original record and film strip. Here I need instructions on how to hook up the VHS player to my lap top a nd what kind of file format to use. Every once and awhile I wonder if somewhere in Detroit there sits a file cabinet full of paperwork somebody's Grandpa saved from Ross Roy where he worked. And in that paperwork is an index to all the Ross Roy filmstrip/record/booklet kits they produced for DDCP. We know there were dealer sales training kits for the sales force on the the different cars, but when were they first produced? We know that beginning in 47(?) the mechanics training sets began that are a great resource. Was anything comparable produced for 1942 and earlier models... Thanks for starting this thread, Marc!
  4. I've got a couple of 54 DeSoto parts cars. In the old days did folks upgrade the brake systems from the 40 Dodges and Plymouths to the bigger Chrysler and DeSoto systems to get more braking power? I'm considering the 'recycle, reuse' alternative of installing the DeSoto brakers on a 1940 Plymouth to the cost of a disc conversion. Thoughts??? THanks, Ed
  5. My experience out in the southwest with a 49 DeSoto that spent its life in Albuquerque was that the water jackets were filled with sand/mud/crud. I used a pressure washer to flush it out and I had to pull out the freeze plugs to get it all out. The distribution tube came out fairly easily with the hook/puller. Ed K
  6. Hi Floyd >>>Here are the numbers off the car: Desoto Motor Corp Body Number (Firewall): 101-2-2759 Briggs Mfg Co Number (Firewall): 432-4117 Engine Number: S10-19909 The engine number on my 5th Avenue, which was built 10.27.1941, is S10 12169, the number on the last Custom built, 5 783 503, is either S10 22830 or S10 23 830 - both are stamped on the "Final Assembly Record", it looks to have been built on Jan 28 1942. It was a 7 PASS SEDAN special order # 8200. An export RHD built also on Jan 28 1942 has an engine number S10 22 451 VIN (serial Number on Pass Door post): 5 781 785. It will be interesting to see what your build date ends up being. You car is only 1718 from the end of production. At one time I thought I had an idea on how many cars were produced on an average day. But I've misplaced it. Here's my research on these numbers: 1942 De Sotos carry three and in some cases, four identification numbers. I’ve compiled this info from on car inspections. I’ve only inspected 1 Custom 3 passenger coupe and convertible both belonging to Ray Reiss in Seattle. There were no firewall tags on the convertible. VIN or SERIAL NUMBER The VIN number is located on a plate attached to the front pillar of the right front door (passenger side). ENGINE NUMBER This number is stamped on the left side of the engine block, below the cylinder head. It is located on the left (driver’s side) upper front corner of the block. If you look above and behind the generator you should be able to see it. The correct engine number begins with S-10 followed by a number between 1001 and 24 551. BODY NUMBER PLATES Located on the firewall in the engine compartment there are at least one, and perhaps two, data plates. They are about 1” by 11/2” stamped plates. All 42s have a ‘DeSOTO DIVISION” Body Number Plate. This number is a series: XXX-y-ZZZZ. XXX - For the S-10S & S-10 it will be 100. For the S-10C it will be 101 For the S-10C Custom with a factory installed “Fifth Avenue Ensemble” it will be 102. Y - This will be a single digit, between 1 and 8, that designates body style. 1....................(3 pass. coupe?) 5....................4 Door Sedan 2....................5 passenger Club coupe 6....................4 Door Town Sedan 3....................(Convertible coupe?) 7...................,(7 pass. Sedan?) 4....................2 Door Sedan (Brougham) 8....................(7 pass. Limo?) ZZZZ - This is the ‘Body Number’ referred to in the 1942 Parts List. I don't know if this is sequential or not. Coupes have a ‘BRIGGSMFN’ Body Number Plate. This number is a series: vvv-wwww. vvv- 432........5 passenger Club Coupe. Codes for the convertible and 3-passenger coupe not yet identified. wwww - This may be a Briggs Manufacturing ‘Body Number’ refered to in the Parts List
  7. Is this a Custom or DeLuxe coupe? Should say so on the cowl panel and the radio medallion. Can you post the numbers? The VIN on passenger door post (or is it the driver side?), on the firewall there are two plates, one is the DeSoto Motors number the other is Briggs number - coupes (or coupe bodies) were apparently build in the Briggs facility as this plate doesn't appear on any other body type. Where are you located and who was the gentleman who started the project? Did you get any other history of the car like previous owners, etc. Here are some responses to your questions My car has the following options: Simplimatic Drive Sportsman Package with leather Bolsters on the seats. This is supposedly quite rare. Yes it is. This option was offered first on the 41 DeSoto coupes. There is a seperate sales brochure covering the car. it comes up on EBay from time to time and may be of interest to you. From what I can garner in 1942 i was offered on all body styles. An August 2000 issue of SIA has a restoration article on this exact car and the owner stated it was the only known one then with the Sportsman package. I have only seen one in my 42 hunts. If I remember it is the one in the SIA article. The owner at the time I saw the car was Francis O'Connell or Connell, if I remember correctly. He had two, a Custom and a De Luxe for parts. Missing items: rear ashtray door covers that go below quarter windows, buttons for the 42 radio that I purchased for the car (it came originally I'm sure with a 41 radio -- the dealer out here in eastern WA at the time probably only had that radio is my explanation) May or may not be the case. I suggest you get the build sheet from Crysler Historical and it will tell you is the car came with the radio or if the dealer installed it. My 42 Fifth Avenue came from the dealerhip in Bellingham, WA and 10 years ago or so the building was still standing! The correct radio for the 42 is either an 801 or 601. The 802/602 are for 46-48 but will fit. Horn ring. the original was broken off on the top half maybe it was due to an emergency honk! those are pot metal, so don't think I can replace it, Can you post a picture of the steering wheel. The same wheels, both the standard and the 5th Avenue cigarette dispenser, were used on the 46-48 as were the horn rings, etc. The only difference was the colors of the wheels - 42's were ivory - and the paint trim in the horn ring and the cross piece - on the 42 all these, as well as on other chrome trim, were painted red. New speedometer dial face. The original is so yellowed you can't read the odomter. I may have some new ones made if there is interest by others in these. Can't find that anybody sells them. There was/is a guy in San Rafael, CA who does produce some 40s MoPar speedo screens, but I am not sure if he does the 42. My car has the Lucite Lady hood ornament; don't know if that was an option only (chrome standard). Yes, it seems to have been optional except it was standard on the 5th Avenue. BUT, with the Fed regs on the use of chrome (Blackout Models) DeSoto may have substituted the lucite Lady for the standard chrome one as production got closer to the 12.15.41 regulations Some of the stainless trim is not great on the front fenders. Bent up fairly well. I think 42 is a one off year for that. That is correct for the fender trim with the groove in it. The belt moldings and the two-tone paint chrome were shared with 41 and 42 Dodge and Chryslers. I've got the dash torn down, have the carb mostly rebuilt (special car for 42 and has kickdown switch on it), Similar carb was used on the 41 DeSotos and Chryslers and the 42 was used on the 42 Chryslers I have a new wiring harness for the Simplimatic drive. I need a new water distribution tube for the engine, and have to finish tearing it down and rebuilding it. Not sure what I'll have to do to the transmission. That is the question for the 41/42s. It is a tricky set up which is why Chrysler went to the M-5 in 1946. Some parts are still out there on EBay and from the usual MoPar suppliers for the Simplimatic. I've contempleted for my 5th Avenue a couple of options. One would be to tinker with what's on the car and hope it will run. If not another option is to transplant an M-5. I've seen at least one 42 where this was done - the only change the owner told me he needed to do was use the floorboard from a 46-48. Another option if I wanted to keep the Fluid Drive is look for the parts needed to attach a standard MoPar 3speed. This is what Dodge had after the war. If I could find one I would probably opt for a standard with overdrive from a early 50s MoPar. I'm guessing I could use the Simplimatic lockout cable in place of the OD cable. The fluid drive needs to be flushed. Most people say not to try to take these apart for service. Just flush with fresh oil or add fresh oil. Otherwise, no serious rust issues with this car. And thankfully it's pretty straight. The previous owner started putting some light blue mud on the rear fender. Gone that will soon be! Keep us posted on your progress and keep the pictures coming! Ed K
  8. FYI This is from one of my resources listing Federal actions. The question was asked upstream about the "blackout" regulations. You can see from this list that the regulation went into effect 10/27/41 for implementation beginning 12/15/1941. No doubt Chrysler was planning for this even before the end of October. I have never discovered any sales or dealer literature that provided buyers information on the color schemes, changes to interiors, price changes (?), etc for the "Blackout" DeSotos. There is one magazine ad for the new "Blackout" DeSoto. It appears to be done by the same artist who did the production ads in the fall of 1941 that appeared in Saturday Evening Post, etc. It appeared in the January 17th(?) issue of Collier's Magazine. It notable not only for showing the b/o paint scheme -dark green with light green trim -- but it also shows the car with the hide-away headlights open. The car is emerging from a tunnel. I also have a supplemental parts list issued mid December. About a third the size of the parts manual issued in September, 1941 it shows the changes and subsequent new part numbers for painted trim, etc. It also shows some production changes made between the beginning of production in early August and most likely early November when this went to press. I saw one for sale in EBay for the 42 Dodge so I'd assume one was also produced for Plymouth. Has anyone come across ads or literature for Blackout model Chryslers, Dodges, or Plymouths? Government Orders Curtailing Passenger Car Production Limitation Orders - Base period August 1938 to July 1941 L-2. Effective 9-13-1941 Production limiting individual company quotas, August through November, 1941 Interpretation No. 1 Effective 12-23-1941 Production for governmental use, exempted from quotas. Removes from “quotas” sales by producers or dealers when the government or certain designated agencies take title, or contract to take title at time of sale. L-2-a Effective 10-24-1941 December, 1941 production fixed, by companies. L-2-b Effective 10-27-1941 Brightwork eliminated in production, except on bumpers and bumper guards of new passenger cars after December 15, 1941. Amendment No. 1 Effective 12.10.1941 Production of certain Brightwork parts permitted. Use of all other “Brightwork” inventory permitted to 12.31.1941, if treated to destroy appearance as “Brightwork.” L-2-c Effective 11.7.1941 January, 1942 production quotas fixed, by companies. L-2-d Effective 12.10.1941 February, 1942 production quotas fixed by companies (later revoked) L-2-e Effective 12.24.1941 December, 1941 and January, 1942 production further reduced. Permits some previously authorized December, 1941 production in January, 1942 – also permits use of certain “Brightwork” authorized by Amendment No.1 to L-2-b to be used in January, 1942. Spare Tire Ban --- prevents sale or delivery of any new car with more than four new tires. Amendment No. 1 Effective 1-23-1942 Restored January, 1942 quotas to those originally specified in L-2-c. L-2-f Effective 1.1.1942 Prohibits sale of new automobiles. Amendment No. 1 Effective 1-8-1942 Ban removed on sale to designated government agencies, to A-1-j rated orders and to certain prime contractors. Amendment No. 2 Effective 1-14-1942 Sale ban extended to February 2, 1942 Amendment No. 3 Effective 1-20-1942 Repossession, retaking or transfer of title permitted for contracts entered into prior to 1-1-42 L-2-g Effective 1-21-1942 February, 1942 quotas established by L-2-d revoked. Completion of January, 1942 quotas permitted by Amendment No. 1 to L-2-e, to be completed before February 11, 1942 L-2-h Effective 1-31-1942 Cadillac production of 719 ambulance chassis allowed up to January 31, 1942 L-2-i Effective 3-9-1942 Prevents dispersal of inventories. (SOURCE – The passenger car limitation orders were issued by the Way Production Board and its predecessors.) The information above was taken from page 42 of “Automotive News 1942 Almanac 9th Annual Review and Reference Book” from the collection of Ed Katzenberger.
  9. The attached file is of two sales transactions at Kline Motors.I hope it is legible as this is my first time to upload a scan. One is from May 23rd 1942 the other from 1943. THe first is a 42 Plymouth sold to another dealer. There were 5-6 transactions for that date, most were Plymouths. I think that there may have been some sort of action by the Feds and/or Chrysler that released for sale a number of cars that had been frozen on January 1st, 1942. The second one from 1943 looks to be to a buyer. Note that the car is loaded with option packages, including the P.B.S (push button starter) and white side wall tires. white side walls were embargod by the Feds prior to the release of the 43 models so officially no cars came from the factory with them. But depending on when this car left DeSoto in Detroit it very well could have as at the end of production after 12/7 the stock of parts apparently was cleaned out. I've come across two 42 DeSotos in my travels that point to this.On one the steering wheel was from a 42 Dodge. The car was being restored by the son-in-law of the original owner and he told me his in-laws claim it came that way from the dealer. The other was another 42 DeSoto that I could not get a serial number off of in order to see when it was built. The entire interior was 42 Dodge - door panels, upholstery, window trim. WWII car sales_0003.pdf
  10. I have sales records from Kline Motors, a Plymouth/DeSoto dealership in Shamokin, PA from August 18,1937 through December 15, 1956. These are both new cars and trade ins. Looking at these for the war years it is clear, as was stated above, that cars were held back and then sold, registered and titled. When I find where I put them I wil scan one and post it here. On another note, DeSoto did offer a dash mounted push button starter for the 1942 S-10 models. It was part of the "Fifth Avenue Ensemble" special order package. It also could be order seperately. My DeLuxe Town Sedan has it and the turnsignal option. More blackout Plymouths were produced as these were used by the armed forces. There were just about 3000 B/O Desotos built. Contrary to what might think, although B/O only models were mandated after December 15th (this was in place before Pearl Harbor) up until the end of DeSoto production in late January, regular Custom models also were produced. These were most likely specific customer orders through dealers that were in the pipeline before January 1st. As you would expect, the conversion to war production and the halting of civilian production was an exercise in controlled chaos. I have in my collection publicity photographs of the last civilian Plymouth and the last Chrysler produced. I have never been able to find one for the DeSoto. Ed K
  11. Hi Bill Thanks for this information. Do you have information on 1942 model year production totals for calendar year 1941? Some years back I bought an original Passenger Car Shop Manual (DX-6772-1) for DDCP published by the Chrysler Corporation Export Division and printed in Canada. It covered cars built from 1941-1947 with some earlier coverage and some later coverage. This manual in the specifications chapter lists vehicle serial numbers. It gives three sets of serial numbers: one is the same as the American built Customs (S10C), one that is the same as the American built De Luxes (S10S) and then one that is different. It is identified as the SP14 and the serial numbers coincide with those for the 1942 Plymouth P14S De Luxe. The book lists separate mechanical specifications for the S10s and the SP14. This information indicates that there was no special serial number set aside for export models. The only way to tell for sure is to consult the individual build sheets in the Chrysler archives for American built cars. I do not know if these build sheets exist for Canadian Mopars. I was interested to see listed for 1942 48 Canadian built SP11 under DeSoto production. I'm assuming that these may be 1941 model export De Soto Diplomats. There seems to be no way of determining from serial number lists if any of these SP14 Diplomats were ever built. As was the case for post war Diplomats, these cars combined features from both the Plymouth and DeSoto models. The 1942 had the DeSoto "waterfall" grille but the Plymouth headlights. I have a export sales folder in Spanish and if I can figure out how to attach a gif I'll post it. Ed
  12. Ray Reis of Seattle, Washington, bought a 42 DeSoto 5th Avenue convertible in the late 60s. As I remember, he bought it from the original owner. The car is marvelous! Ed
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