Snowball Effect, At What Point Do You Stop

[YukonJack]

I have been trying to keep the 218 in my 47 Plymouth 2Dr Sedan running for some time now. I had a 48 I was going to street rod and then the 47 came along. It ran better, had newer interior and less rust. Plan was to eventually rod it. My 218 smokes, mostly at idle, uses oil and leaks oil and the water pump was leaking. I bought a water pump from Rock Auto, think it was about 60.00 with shipping ( it bothers me when I see these pumps on Ebay for well over 100.00) So, I figured I'd replace the front crank seal while I had the radiator out and water pump off. Couldn't understand why I had to buy a timing cover set until I noticed you have to take the timing cover off to replace the front crank seal. I bought a big socket, got the crank bolt off, but now I can't get in there with my puller. Looks like the motor mount has to come off and the motor jacked up to remove the pulley and timing cover. This is getting more complicated than I had first thought. Now, if I get the timing cover off I'm sure the gears and chain will need to be replaced, hence the snowball effect. Keeping in mind that the engine is smoking a little, compression is even but low in all cylinders, about 80. My thought at this point is to go no further. Put the water pump on, maybe some stop leak in the oil might slow the crank seal leak and start looking for a 318 - 360. Does this make sense? I don't want to keep putting time, money and parts into this engine. Sorry for the long post, just venting I guess.    

[knuckleharley]

I'm definitely the wrong person to give you a definitive answer to this,but I will say that timing chains aren't that expensive and that it would be worth the additional cost to me to give me the financial option to make a modern swap later if I still wanted to do so.

 

Which might in effect mean you have more time to look around for a better and cheaper deal on a engine and trans combo,and better be able to afford to spend the additional money these swaps always require beyond buying the engine and tansmission.

 

Not to mention if and when you do pull the 218 to make the V-8 swap you will have a 218 engine for sale that you can tell people has new oil seals and doesn't leak oil,and maybe even has a new timing chain. Which means it will be easier to sell and you will get more money for it.

 

In the grand scheme of things,another 30 bucks or so for a timing chain won't be the end of the world if you have to buy one,and you probably won't.

 

BTW,I've never had a 218 apart. Do they even have timing chains,or just timing gears?

[55 Fargo]

Only you can ultimately answer this question. Yes indeed, sometimes, when uncovering a problem, many more arise, and things can snowball real quick from there.

I see you have some choices, do the patch-up/fixup and run 218 until you can get together your V8 transplant ready. Nothing wrong with this, and hey you can still enjoy driving the car for your short Yukon summer, if that is where you live.

Some on this website will frown on the V8 transplant instead of the Flat Head 6 being fixed/rebuilt and continuing on. I have no problem with anyone doing a V8 swap, if that is what they really want. I only get a little ticked, if a project is started then abandoned, or a car is scrapped, but again, it really is the owner's choice.

If you have even/decent compression, engine runs well, but smokes just a little, and leaks oil, heck drive it and have fun. It's when you cannot use the engine, because it's knocking, making noise, wrist pins loose, bearings worn, it can become futile.

What is the compression like?

What temperature does this engine run at, when being driven, not just idling?

What is the oil pressure like?

If you have solved the coolant leak, with the new water pump, button things up, and drive her. Then get whatever you intend to drop under the hood ready, and make your swap as simple as possible.....Good Luck

[55 Fargo]

I think Yukon is only speculating He needs a new timing chain and gears. He might be better off buttoning things up and drivin her, while He gets things ready for his eventual V8 swap. 

I'm definitely the wrong person to give you a definitive answer to this,but I will say that timing chains aren't that expensive and that it would be worth the additional cost to me to give me the financial option to make a modern swap later if I still wanted to do so.

 

Which might in effect mean you have more time to look around for a better and cheaper deal on a engine and trans combo,and better be able to afford to spend the additional money these swaps always require beyond buying the engine and tansmission.

 

Not to mention if and when you do pull the 218 to make the V-8 swap you will have a 218 engine for sale that you can tell people has new oil seals and doesn't leak oil,and maybe even has a new timing chain. Which means it will be easier to sell and you will get more money for it.

 

In the grand scheme of things,another 30 bucks or so for a timing chain won't be the end of the world if you have to buy one,and you probably won't.

 

BTW,I've never had a 218 apart. Do they even have timing chains,or just timing gears?

[mrwrstory]

I concur with the suggestion of buttoning up the engine and driving the car while you figure out what to do.  If you rebuild the flat 6 you should do it right,....which does cost some bucks.  The up side being you can just bolt it back into place.

I'm a hot rod guy.  I like V8s.  If you can score a good running 318/360 and trans., I'm thinking the cost would be about equivalant to rebuilding the flat 6, HOWEVER!!!!!!,......there is a lot more patch, fab and fit required, and you'll still have a used engine.  A lot should depend on how comfortable you with figurin out resolving the installation of a non-stock engine. 

[pflaming]

This was my engine when I bought the truck. It sat thus for 20 years. Greybeard suggested I put the head back on and the exhaust/intake manifolds, the carb., etc., and see if it would start. Since the oil showed no water he thought it would. I had NEVER done anymore before to an engine at that point then change the oil and filter.  

 

It started had 55 +/- compression,  40# oil pressure and 160 degrees at idle. At his suggestion, I put in better pistons, new ris pins, had the pistons, pins, and rods matched and balanced, then ground the valves and had the head squared.  After that I now have 95 +/- compression and got 14 mpg on a 360 mile round trip to the imfamous BBQ.  There is a video on U-Tube under Mopar Flathead 6.

 

Point is: don't panic and don't fix it if it ain't broke (timing gear). I like the OLD look so I gave it six coats of clear. It really cleans up nice.

 

Good luck. Lots of fun. 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2013 by pflaming

[Don Coatney]

Jack;

I know you were reading this forum way back when I rebuilt my engine. It seemed like I had to move my line in the sand almost daily. If your engine smokes, leaks, and has low compression a new timing chain and gears will not fix any of that. Perhaps now is the time to make it a hot rod as that was your original plan.

[YukonJack]

You are right Don. I think I first started coming to this site in 1999-2000, even though it now shows 2006. I know the chain and gears wouldn't solve any of the other problems, just from past practice when you are that far into something you replace whats bad. Since I started coming to this forum I have had a 48 Plymouth 2 Dr. Sedan, a 54 Plaza 2 Dr Wagon and for the past 11 years the 47 Plymouth 2 Dr Sedan. I have to say Don, that you have always kinda been my idol. You saw your project through from start to finish, managed to take pictures of just about everything imaginable and have pretty much driven your car all over the country. I remember when you pioneered the T5 swap and how upset you were when someone was trying to profit off of your design (bell housing I believe).  My hats off to you. I have also followed Bill Storys build. Great car.  

Jack;

I know you were reading this forum way back when I rebuilt my engine. It seemed like I had to move my line in the sand almost daily. If your engine smokes, leaks, and has low compression a new timing chain and gears will not fix any of that. Perhaps now is the time to make it a hot rod as that was your original plan.

[Don Coatney]

Thanks Jack for the compliment. If I were to build a V-8 Hotrod I would follow what Bill Story did too. He set a very good example and shared all his trials and tribulations.