Learning About My Brakes Today

[TJM70's_48]

I want to do the rear brakes & wheel cylinders on my car and adjust the front brakes. I have a spare rear end and took a drum off today to see what I was dealing with and learn about the adjusters before I tear into the car. Good thing too, because it took me a while to understand the adjustments and how they interact. I nearly got the drum stuck on there after messing up the tightness on the heel adjusters.

 

Here are some questions I have after taking the shoes off and re-installing and attempting to center the brakes.

 

When I turn the major adjusters to the arrows facing in and the minor adjusters to minimum I get some resistance against the drum but it moves. I can't seem to adjust them in so there is no contact what so ever. Is this normal?

 

How tight should I go with the nuts on the eccentric adjusters (the outside)?

Are the minor adjusters at minimum when the flat spot is facing the shoe? They seem to be & is that the best position for installing new shoes?

Should I oil the felt on the major adjusters?

Is there any lubrication called for on the washers behind the shoes on the major adjusters?

Can I do this without the real brake tool? I made a version of this (not my photo):

 

The "tool" seems to help me pretty well with getting the shoes centered but I can't tell if they are tight enough to the drum. 

 

Can anyone give me pointers for doing this and getting good results without the real tool? Or should I give it up?

 

Any pointers are welcome.

 

I'm working on devising a home made tool to measure the drum diameter but don't have one made up yet. 

[DCurrent]

I am interested in knowing if the shoes center automatically when they are first activated within the drum. I would think so.

Darren

[TJM70's_48]

My understanding is that as a non-servo design, they can't self-center. Modern drum brakes have the adjuster and springs at the heel and are only connected in one place per shoe. The heel on the Lockheed system doesn't "float" like those in a new car.

 

Part of my problem today was that I kept trying to pull in the shoes and then use the major adjuster to put the heels in contact with the drum...but it just didn't feel like I was being successful.

[P15-D24]

I am interested in knowing if the shoes center automatically when they are first activated within the drum. I would think so.

Darren

No, the springs pull the back to the adjusting cams. They are NOT self centering. 

[JIPJOBXX]

You should be ok with your major adjustment as long as you use that special tool "Great"!  Just slip on drum and do the minor like any other car after you have the shoes concentric with the drum.  Just adjust the minor adjustment till the shoes start to drag and your in like flin! 

[JIPJOBXX]

Here is a tool I made up for the front and it worked!  Just some PVC pipes and place it over the axel and your in bussiness!

[TJM70's_48]

Thanks for the replies...I guess I'm just being over cautious because the braking is so darn important. I think I know what to do...nice weather coming our way later this week - I think I'll do some adjusting & see where it goes.

[Adam H P15 D30]

I'm sure most of the people here have seen these "videos" but I rarely see them mentioned here.  They are training "videos" from that era.  Sent a rainy day watching a lot of them not so long ago.  Not really videos but might shen some light on your questions.  Entertaining too........  There are a lot of them so have fun!!!  Here is one on brakes.

 

[TJM70's_48]

Wow - for someone like me - not afraid to learn and to tackle maintainence and repairs but without an experienced friend or mentor nearby - these film strip presentations are invaluable. Thanks for the post; I'll be doing some watching later thru the series, too. 

[d.dunavan]

Yes, much thanks for the link. Being a visual learner these will help me tons.

 

D.

[TJM70's_48]

It's just the "extra" boost of confidence I needed. I've watched the brake one several times...I changed the disc brakes on our daily driver last week in 15 minutes...the old cars are a different story for me with such a steep learning curve.

[TJM70's_48]

So, now that I have the front wheel and drum off...I think it is smart to clean and repack the wheel bearings? Or is it? Should I do this now?

 

What is the advice on this? What other tasks should be done while I have the brakes disassembled for new wheel cylinders? The lines and hoses are done already.

 

What is the recommended grease? I believe Marine grease is in the manual...is regular hi-temp grease acceptable?

 

Also, does anyone know the part number for the rear bearing seals at NAPA or elsewhere?

[Don Coatney]

Personally I repack the wheel bearings every time I remove the hub.

 

Any good auto parts store carries wheel bearing grease. 

 

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Wheel+Bearing+Grease/N0417/C0139.oap

 

 

 

P-15 front wheel seals

[TJM70's_48]

Thank you, Don. I think it's only smart to clean & repack...why risk dirt getting in there? 

 

Am I missing any tasks while the brakes are apart?

 

Is this also a fit? Not surprisingly, the site does not list the application...

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Timken-Wheel-Seal-Front/_/N-6o268?itemIdentifier=487243_3214_4988_

Edited April 11, 2013 by TJM70's_48

[52dodge]

i got new wheel cyl,wheel bearings,and races from advance auto today they had listings for all parts 

Thank you, Don. I think it's only smart to clean & repack...why risk dirt getting in there? 

 

Am I missing any tasks while the brakes are apart?

 

Is this also a fit? Not surprisingly, the site does not list the application...

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Timken-Wheel-Seal-Front/_/N-6o268?itemIdentifier=487243_3214_4988_

[_shel_ny]

Is this also a fit? Not surprisingly, the site does not list the application...

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Timken-Wheel-Seal-Front/_/N-6o268?itemIdentifier=487243_3214_4988_

Hard to tell if it is a fit as neither your post, nor profile shows what you are working on

[TJM70's_48]

 Oops...1948 P-15...my profile used to have it...I had some trouble with the switch over & will fix that omission.

 

I am a decent home mechanic, but this is my first old car and I want to learn to do more substantial projects and need lots of help. So I appreciate the attention and don't want to do anything to make it harder for me to get assistance!

[_shel_ny]

my MoPar passenger car parts list 1954 shows the inner seal as 668479 (converts to 17145 at collectorsauto) for 1937-48 Plym/Dodge/DeSoto/Chry   ($66)

AutoZone cross reference says 5836 vs 17145 are the same.

Auto Zone gives the specs for the 5836.  Says it does not fit P-15  ($20)

NAPA gives the specs for 17145   ($31)

Advance Auto gives the same specs. Says it does not fit P-15   ($20)

 

RockAuto has 1 5836. Lists for Dodge  ($10)

 

Looks like Chris at oldmoparts will sell one for $15

 

Will it fit ????

EDIT: same on mine with vehicle not showing:)

Edited April 12, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48

[TJM70's_48]

I find Rock Auto to be so confusing sometimes...I couldn't find that seal under any of the '46 - 48 Ply listing...and wasn't sure if another year / application was the same size...thanks for the cross reference. I'm not surprised that sites don't know if it's the right application for my car - but - it doesn't help boost my confidence that it'll fit. 

 

My Napa has them for $22.52 ship to store price.