Borge Warner Overdrive Problem

[Don Coatney]

My hats off to you for a successful disassembly complete with pictures. As Jim Yergan suggested George Asche may be a source for parts.

[1941Rick]

That is pretty ucky oil in there.....looks like you need a housing but what about the rest of it?

[Dodgeb4ya]

The rear case looks to be cracked and extremely worn! Clearance between the ring gear and case is around .010" to .015" on a usable rear OD case. You cannot buy them new.

Bob

[Don Coatney]

The rear case looks to be cracked and extremely worn! Clearance between the ring gear and case is around .010" to .015" on a usable rear OD case. You cannot buy them new.

Bob

Is the rear case the same and interchangable on other maunfactures besides plymouth?

[1941Rick]

They are different from Chev and Stud for sure....

[suntennis]

I talked with George Asche a few weeks ago and he said he has used a ring gear from a Chevrolet that is slightly larger in outside diameter on some OD units. To do this he had to have the case machined to fit the larger ring gear. The planetary gear from Northwestern will cost arout $400. George should have most of the other parts. On the one shift rail with a plug, I just knocked it out, then reused it. If you have help to reassemble that would be nice. I did not have help, so I made out of wood some small stands to support parts as I reassembled.

[DJ194950]

Way bad, sorry!

If George Ashe cannot help i don't know who can, even for locating parts.

If this can be of help, a good friend has a chevy OD transmission (mid 50-up) just been sitting outside but complete that i did plan to try to get for next to nothing just for the govenor and solenoid. I put a call to him and awaiting call back about getting it. If any of the internal parts of the chevy trans can be used (per George A.)

Let me know,

Good luck,

Doug

[plyroadking]

I've been following your story and had a feeling this is what you would find, i bought one a year ago that the same issue. I bought a ford r10 overdrive transmission and swapped the overdrive internals. The planetary, ring, and sprag clutch are the same. I usually pay around $50 for one and sometimes the solenoid and governor are an extra bonus. If you are having a hard time finding any I have a stack of good used parts. Mine had a crack in the case too and I had a machine shop drill and weld it, its held up with no problems in my daily driver.

[martybose]

Well, this Sunday I finally had a chance to get back to this issue.  Since I don't have a lift or a jack at the Galt location, I simply pulled out the seat and the floor pan to take a look.  While I haven't pulled the fill plugs yet, there was a definite coating of oil around the tailshaft housing, which almost certainly came from the OD unit.  I'm going to get some 90 weight gear oil and a small funnel and top it off, while diving into my manuals to figure out where the seal is that is apparently bad.  Hopefully I'll try filling it next weekend.

 

Marty

Wow!  I brought up a quart of 90 wt gear oil, and it didn't even fill the tranny up!  I'll get another quart to keep going, and start looking through my parts manuals to find out what seal I need to buy to stop the leaking!

 

Marty

[Dutchman]

Thanks Guys!  

 

Doug, let me know if that chevy OD is available and how much.  Also what model it is and perhaps George and I can find out if we could make it work.

 

Thanks again for everyone help and input!

[Dutchman]

Thanks Plyroadking!

I was wondering as well if I could drill and weld the crack or perhaps find a way to sleeve it. Any thought on sleeving?

I did talk to George and he said that he has been trying to fin a rear case for one of his costumers for 2 years! Yikes! he also said he successfully machined a case to accept a larger Chevy planetary setup. I just don’t know if the crack is going to spoil that idea.

The oil was dark and nasty looking when I tore it apart, even after I had drained the original oil and replaced it with new 90wt mineral oil, then ran it for quick and short drive and then replaced it again with mineral 90wt. to clean it out. something must have been getting hot.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Dutchman

[Dodgeb4ya]

It had most likely been run low on oil before you got it. The damage was already started. You got to experience how an OD fails. It took some time and heat to damage the case that much!

Edited March 12, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya

[DJ194950]

 

Thanks Guys!  

 

Doug, let me know if that chevy OD is available and how much.  Also what model it is and perhaps George and I can find out if we could make it work.

 

Thanks again for everyone help and input!

Talked to my friend and i can buy the Chev. OD for $20. I have looked at it before and i'm sure that it is an r-10. He also told me that it can out of a 62 Chev.

I plan to go to his house Monday afternoon and get it. I'll keep the 12volt solenoid as a spare for my car and any internal part(s) that George A. says You can use you can have for the shipping costs!

There some parts for these OD trans at times on Ebay. Search : "R-10" and also "3 speed overdrive" for parts,

Seems to many for Ford r-10 and a few others, Mopar are scarce.

Best to ya,

Doug

[martybose]

I just discovered that the oil that I bought isn't GL-1, which is an obsolete designation, it is GL-4/5, which are both a Hypoid lubricant, which I was under the impression shouldn't be used in our overdrives.  Does anyone know what oil I should be looking for?

 

Marty, puzzled ........

[Dutchman]

Hey martybose-

 

I know the oil you need and you can get it at Napa.  It is called Napa Mineral Gear Oil SAE 90 API GL-1 in 90wt. I’ve ordered it from Napa 2 times and it comes in a gallon container. Also 65-201 may be the order number.

 

 

Hope this helps!

Dutchman

[Dutchman]

Thanks, Doug! I’ll try to contact George and see what he needs.

[1941Rick]

If you can not find the napa oil, use Pennzoil syncromesh oil......

[martybose]

Hey martybose-

 

I know the oil you need and you can get it at Napa.  It is called Napa Mineral Gear Oil SAE 90 API GL-1 in 90wt. I’ve ordered it from Napa 2 times and it comes in a gallon container. Also 65-201 may be the order number.

 

IMG_1401.jpg

 

Hope this helps!

Dutchman

Thank you!  The full part number is NHF 65201.  The stores local to me didn't have it in stock, but they had 2 gallons in their Fresno warehouse, so I bought both of them.  They will ship it up, and I'll pick it up tomorrow!

 

Marty

[martybose]

Okay, next question.  My car is a 1947 P15, but the tranny is out of a 53 Dodge.  My parts book only goes up to 1948; can someone with a parts manual that goes to 1953 get me a part number for the output shaft seal in a 3 spd with Overdrive transmission?

 

Marty

Edited March 12, 2013 by martybose

[plyroadking]

Od output seal: national 8160s skf15620

[DJ194950]

 

Thanks, Doug! I’ll try to contact George and see what he needs.

Picked up the Chevy OD trans today, but still in my car trunk. Tomorrow i'll get some help and get it out. Within the next couple of days i'll take it apart and inspect all the pieces and see if all good or not. Get back to you then Dutchman.

Best to ya,

Doug

[Dodgeb4ya]

Have a micrometer and dial caliper and be careful when trying to swap MoPar and GM OD rear half parts. The GM ring gear is usually a rough finished OD and will have to be machined smooth and sized correctly to run in the MoPar rear OD case. George will have to teach you what to do or he'll have to do the work. The GM OD ring gear is not supported by the rear case as the MoPar R10 is.

Bob

[martybose]

Od output seal: national 8160s skf15620

Thank you, sir!

 

Marty

[martybose]

Od output seal: national 8160s skf15620

The SKF part number worked at Napa; I've got 2 on order to be picked up tomorrow.  Interestingly, they had it listed as a Mack truck rear transmission seal!

 

Marty

[plyroadking]

That's interesting, I have not heard that one yet... I was surprised to find wheel seals from a '60s Mercedes work perfectly as front wheel seals on my '40 Plymouth.