starting issues part 2

[_shel_ny]

n l a

Edited March 3, 2012 by shel_bizzy_48

[Plymouthy Adams]

only in the manner in which the metal is transferred on the points facing

[ptwothree]

Sure would be nice to have another distrib from a running engine to drop in yours and see what happens.

In the mean time, check the cranking voltage at the battery side of the coil...should be around 4 volts or so on a 6 volt sys. or 10 with 12v.

Too low..check for a voltage drop before the coil. If it's normal, and with all else you've done, find a condenser that you know works.

Condensers are a weak electrical link in any points equipped sys. using these parts.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I believe he has a NOS distributor in ther now and still has the problem..

[ptwothree]

Has the NOS dizzy started this or any other engine??

[Plymouthy Adams]

good question and the basis for the previous question I asked..does the coil still fire a nice spark with the distributor disconnected..we can speculate back and forth forever and in truth we are only guessing until the man answers or provides a more recent update of findings..being NOS I would not suspect it having fired an engine in the past..

Edited March 3, 2012 by Tim Adams

[p24-1953]

well he the mechanic replaced the NOS points and condesor with the known good ones we had tested previously and we got a strong spark off of the 6 volt. However the car would not fire up. Spark good, Fuel good, so it has to be compression. If you remember the other day the compression was low in the 20 range across the board. It was assumed that since the car sat oil less for a few weeks this could be solved by adding a little oil to the spark plug holes and hand cranking the engine. After doing this the compression went up to the 80 range. well short of the 100-105 i had across the board after replacing the head gasket before the fire. well after the electrical issue was fixed and the car would not start the compression was tested again. and it was back in the 20's after sitting a few days. Each cylinder was refilled over the weekend with ATF and oil and allowed to soak. This morning the last 3 cylinders were dry and my compression is 45 80 80 0 0 0.

So that leaves us with rings, valves or head gaskets.

The first step is to remove the head and check that the gasket is not shot, or the head didnt warp in the fire.

We will also be checking to make sure that we dont have multiple valves stuck open. It was verified that a short threaded compression guage was used and valves should not have been bent. I am wondering if the lack of oil/heat caused the 20 years of sludge to cause one valve after another to stick in the open position as the engine was cranked over the past few days causing the difference in comression rating.

I dont know what could have happened to cause the rings to fail? any thought? Would oil and atf left soaking drain completly on a good set of rings?

Edited March 5, 2012 by p24-1953

[Guest P15-D24]

and see if any were stuck?

[p24-1953]

update #3 well we/he started by shecking the valves. it appears that i have 8 valves that are in some sort of stuck position. the last 3 cylinders both intake and exhaust are stuck full open. the next two intake only are open. they have been soaking in kroil for 4 days. after 2 days he started to pry or apply a light tap to them with the head off and a rubber mallet to see if he could get any movement out of them. four of the 6 cylinders will not hold oil when it is poured directly in the cylinder. his thoughts are:

1) he can continue to soak the valves hoping to free them, and then fire up the engine once the valves are free. it may smoke a lot if it will start but it might free up the rings.

2) We can have the engine rebuilt. it has 50,000 miles and 25 years on it since it was last redone. Since i have a stuck rings, and valves this kinda make since.

Whats yalls thoughts?

[54Illinois]

I lean toward the rebuild...I have a good selection of used 218 parts if you need them.

[p24-1953]

I lean toward the rebuild...I have a good selection of used 218 parts if you need them.

including a hood that im still not for sure if i will need. i have never got it to the paint shop to have them look at.

[54Illinois]

including a hood that im still not for sure if i will need. i have never got it to the paint shop to have them look at.

That hood is not moving anytime soon. You have first dibs...

[JBNeal]

Tear it apart, clean everything to see if there aren't any other hidden problems, rebuild with fresh parts...the valves & guides may or may not be acceptable once cleaned out. The 230 in my 1 ton had so much sludge in the oilpan I could ball it up to the size of my fist; there was so much crud in the water jackets that it was over the bottom freeze plugs. Clean out the oil pressure relief valve bore and give the valve a good polishing so that it won't get stuck. Upgrade to a 180F thermostat and rig up a PCV system to help keep the sludge out of the oilpan. Another upgrade is to bump up the compression ratio to 8:1 for a few extra horsepower.

[Don Coatney]

Have you been able to start and run this engine after the fire?

[p24-1953]

I started it and pulled into the garage after it was droped off by the tow truck. It was not for very long but it did fire up and run easily. It sat for a few weeks oil less, and with no intake or exhaust for 5 or 6 weeks. 5 days of soaking and prying and the valves are still stuck. What I don't understand is why the piston rings won't hold oil. I could see the valves getting hot enough to be damaged since the valve covers are warped, but how did the piston rings fail

[Don Coatney]

I started it and pulled into the garage after it was droped off by the tow truck. It was not for very long but it did fire up and run easily. It sat for a few weeks oil less, and with no intake or exhaust for 5 or 6 weeks. 5 days of soaking and prying and the valves are still stuck. What I don't understand is why the piston rings won't hold oil. I could see the valves getting hot enough to be damaged since the valve covers are warped, but how did the piston rings fail

Valve covers warped? Splain?

[p24-1953]

Prior to the fire I never had a leak from the covers. Now when i removed the covers a lay them on my flat work bench one of them has a slight bow to it. I assumed that this was warped. I installed new gaskets on them prior to taking it to the shop. I don't know if it flat before the fire or if it will leak now. Is it not possible for the covers to warp. I didn't have to pry them off or anything.

[Don Coatney]

I find it hard to believe that an external fire could do any intrnal heat related damage to an engine. I also struggle with the concept of how raw gasolene (due to excessive attempts to start the engine) could cause the compression to drop to zero in cylinders that held higher compression prior to the fire. This is my opinion and others are allowed to disagree. I see that you elected to start a new thread dealing with this same problem before this thread has clousure. Why are you trying to save a few pennies with a feeble attempt to buy engine parts of a size unkown to you as opposed to allowing the rebuilding machine shop to buy the correctly sized parts? False economy in my opinion. But as I said you and others are allowed to disagree and it will not hurt my feelings.

[p24-1953]

I agree it is odd to me that a fire could cause internal issues. It may just be a odd rare coincidence. But I can't figure out what would cause the exhaust valves to stick. I am not trying penny pinch just trying to help when and where i can. I did not start another thread about this problem, I started another thread about where to get parts. Don, you are a wealth of knowledge, which is welcomed, but a little cranky.....

[JBNeal]

fire can do some strange things in an enclosed space. Rapid oxidation can generate gases that can be corrosive to some metals and change the physical characteristics of carbon-based fluids. When oil oxidizes, it can form sludge when combined with moisture and contaminants. So it's possible that internal components got gummed up from the smoke.