Dodge vs. Chevy Lubrication

[meadowbrook]

Hi folks, I was wondering if anyone here knows something about the Flathead's rival, the old 216 Chevy engine.

I know one advantage of the 230 Mopar engine was the full pressure oiling system. However, I was always curious about how the Chevy OHV engine, with splash lubrication, got oil to the rocker arms on top of the head.

Does anyone know this?

[randroid]

meadowbrook,

Oil enters the bottom of the hollow Chevy pushrod from a hole in the top of the lifter and squirts out the top above the valve. I'm sure there are variations to this theme but that's pretty much how it's done. There are little clip-on deflectors that can be attached to the top of the rocker arms to prevent oil from splashing on the engine during a valve adjustment while the engine's running and I have never understood why some form of permanent deflector wasn't designed into the engine but I'm sure there was a very good reason, such as the cost of clips would have cut too deeply into profits.

-Randy

[TodFitch]

There is a thread over on the AACA forum by a fellow doing a restoration of a 1934 Chevrolet coupe.

http://forums.aaca.org/f190/reconstruction-34-chevy-master-coupe-297983-10.html

Amazing what he is doing.

But my big take away was that I'm very glad I have a '33 Plymouth with all steel body and an engine that came from the factory with a four bearing crank, thin shell replaceable bearing inserts, full pressure lubrication, aluminum pistons, etc. It may look like a cast iron anvil, but the insides of my engine are a lot more modern than his overhead valve "stove bolt" engine.

[austinsailor]

It's a very strange system. It's correct that newer motors oil through the lifters, but I recently had to repair the ohv oiling on my dad's 41 Chevy pickup.

Oil pump is on the left. An oil line screws into the block/ pump area. I can't recall if it's actually the pump or block where it attaches, but on the outside. The line is a complicated arrangement, it goes into the block on the left side, through the water jacket, exits the water jacket on the right inside the side lifter cover. It goes up to the rocker arm through a hole in the head, makes a bend, then dribbles oil on the rocker arm.

When you replace this line, it comes as an assembly with fittings all over, all the fittings to seal both sides of the block, the fitting to screw into the block at the source, and an open end at the exit.

You have to fit it through, slide the fittings on the other side, make all the bends, get it to seal water in and get it to dribble oil at the right place, bending as you install without kinking.

I thought it was a pretty sad arrangement myself, but then Ford has some doozies as well.

At some time I'm sure they went to internal lines in the block, but I don't know when.

As I recall, the oil pump also feeds the dip trays where the rods pick up the oil. I'm not sure how the lifters and pushrod ends get oil.

Edited November 28, 2011 by austinsailor

[Young Ed]

Here's the engine from the 50 chev Dad and I were working on a few years ago. You can see the line hanging out the side of the block. Someone had stuck copper in there which I suspect is incorrect.

[austinsailor]

Looks correct to me, it's just pulled loose or unscrewed from the source. On the other side of the block, inside the valve cover, is the exit. The replacement I got was copper like that.

[Young Ed]

Here's the other side but I can't spot it. I know it was there. I'm kinda surprised it was copper.

[Rusty O'Toole]

It's a very strange system. It's correct that newer motors oil through the lifters, but I recently had to repair the ohv oiling on my dad's 41 Chevy pickup.

Oil pump is on the left. An oil line screws into the block/ pump area. I can't recall if it's actually the pump or block where it attaches, but on the outside. The line is a complicated arrangement, it goes into the block on the left side, through the water jacket, exits the water jacket on the right inside the side lifter cover. It goes up to the rocker arm through a hole in the head, makes a bend, then dribbles oil on the rocker arm.

When you replace this line, it comes as an assembly with fittings all over, all the fittings to seal both sides of the block, the fitting to screw into the block at the source, and an open end at the exit.

You have to fit it through, slide the fittings on the other side, make all the bends, get it to seal water in and get it to dribble oil at the right place, bending as you install without kinking.

I thought it was a pretty sad arrangement myself, but then Ford has some doozies as well.

At some time I'm sure they went to internal lines in the block, but I don't know when.

As I recall, the oil pump also feeds the dip trays where the rods pick up the oil. I'm not sure how the lifters and pushrod ends get oil.

What a Rube Goldberg mess.

The oil goes to the head where the rockers fling it around, it dribbles down and oils the valves, pushrods and rockers as it goes.

In the old days, an accessory you could buy for your Chev was a mini mattress made of felt or cotton stuffing sewn into a cloth cover. You were supposed to soak it in oil, lay it on top of the rocker arms and put the valve cover back on. The oil would lubricate the rocker assembly, valves and pushrods. At oil change time you would soak it with oil again.

If this sounds like a primitive lashup you are right. But was better than the factory arrangement, at least until the rockers wore through the cloth and the cotton stuffing went all through your oiling system.

It's the later Chev V8 that pumps the oil up through the pushrods then flings it around like a gusher gone berserk.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Rusty O'Toole

[meadowbrook]

I am confused.

Thanks for the responses, but, I thought these early Chevy engines had no oil pump, but were splash lubricated, so what would pump the oil up the block into the head?

[TodFitch]

I am confused.

Thanks for the responses, but, I thought these early Chevy engines had no oil pump, but were splash lubricated, so what would pump the oil up the block into the head?

I believe they did have an oil pump. But it was a low pressure affair to get oil to the top of the engine, not a higher pressure setup to directly oil the rod bearings through a drilled crank.

I don't know how long it lasted, but the early Chevy 6 had three main bearings so there were three crank throws between the front bearing and the middle bearing. And three more crank throws between the center bearing and the rear bearing. I have a hard time visualizing how one could cross drill such a crank to get oil from the mains to the #2 and #5 rods. So I would not be surprised if they maintained splash lubrication on the rods until they added more main bearings to the engine.

[OldDad67]

What a Rube Goldberg mess.

The oil goes to the head where the rockers fling it around' date=' it dribbles down and oils the valves, pushrods and rockers as it goes.

In the old days, an accessory you could buy for your Chev was a mini mattress made of felt or cotton stuffing sewn into a cloth cover. You were supposed to soak it in oil, lay it on top of the rocker arms and put the valve cover back on. The oil would lubricate the rocker assembly, valves and pushrods. At oil change time you would soak it with oil again.

If this sounds like a primitive lashup you are right. But was better than the factory arrangement, at least until the rockers wore through the cloth and the cotton stuffing went all through your oiling system.

It's the later Chev V8 that pumps the oil up through the pushrods then flings it around like a gusher gone berserk.[/quote']

My understanding of the "Mini Mattress" as you call it was more used to dampen the noise of the solid lifters since the rocker arms are oiled through the center shaft that the rocker arms pivot on. The early engines had an oil pump and a 15 pound oil gauge. In 1953 the manual transmission engines still had the splash system and the Powerglide went to the full pressure. And in 54 all engines were full pressure. Old Stovebolt motors preformed very well as did the old Mopar motors. All required more frequent maintaince than most stuff today, but back in the day more people did their own maintaince. Most people today don't even know how to check their own oil muchless change it.

[OldDad67]

It's a very strange system. It's correct that newer motors oil through the lifters, but I recently had to repair the ohv oiling on my dad's 41 Chevy pickup.

Oil pump is on the left. An oil line screws into the block/ pump area. I can't recall if it's actually the pump or block where it attaches, but on the outside. The line is a complicated arrangement, it goes into the block on the left side, through the water jacket, exits the water jacket on the right inside the side lifter cover. It goes up to the rocker arm through a hole in the head, makes a bend, then dribbles oil on the rocker arm.

When you replace this line, it comes as an assembly with fittings all over, all the fittings to seal both sides of the block, the fitting to screw into the block at the source, and an open end at the exit.

You have to fit it through, slide the fittings on the other side, make all the bends, get it to seal water in and get it to dribble oil at the right place, bending as you install without kinking.

I thought it was a pretty sad arrangement myself, but then Ford has some doozies as well.

At some time I'm sure they went to internal lines in the block, but I don't know when.

As I recall, the oil pump also feeds the dip trays where the rods pick up the oil. I'm not sure how the lifters and pushrod ends get oil.

The Copper oil line could be an aftermarket oiling kit. The internal oil line use to oil the rockers use to plug up starving the rockers of oil. You could go to any auto parts store or J.C. Whitney and buy an external oiler kit which had a "T" fitting and some copper tubing that mounted on the left side of the block and routed around the back side of the engine and attached to a pipe plug hole on the right side of the head, therby by passing the internal line. It was an easy fix for a common problem.

[Don Coatney]

The Copper oil line could be an aftermarket oiling kit. The internal oil line use to oil the rockers use to plug up starving the rockers of oil. You could go to any auto parts store or J.C. Whitney and buy an external oiler kit which had a "T" fitting and some copper tubing that mounted on the left side of the block and routed around the back side of the engine and attached to a pipe plug hole on the right side of the head, therby by passing the internal line. It was an easy fix for a common problem.

I had such a kit and sold it on the bay a few years back.

[Rusty O'Toole]

The felt or cotton pad was used after the stock setup plugged up or failed. They sold the same thing for Y block Fords which were also notorious for inadequate rocker arm lubrication.

[B-Watson]

I believe they did have an oil pump. But it was a low pressure affair to get oil to the top of the engine, not a higher pressure setup to directly oil the rod bearings through a drilled crank.

I don't know how long it lasted, but the early Chevy 6 had three main bearings so there were three crank throws between the front bearing and the middle bearing. And three more crank throws between the center bearing and the rear bearing. I have a hard time visualizing how one could cross drill such a crank to get oil from the mains to the #2 and #5 rods. So I would not be surprised if they maintained splash lubrication on the rods until they added more main bearings to the engine.

Three main bearing crank was used from 1929 through 1936. The four main crank came with the 1937 redesign of the engine, now with 216-cid. The camshaft now had replaceable bearings on all four mains.

The cast iron pistons lasted through to 1953 when it was last used on the non-Powerglide models. The 1936 engine used 28 oz pistons which dropped to 23 for the 1937 models. Chrysler's 25" block engines used 17 oz aluminum pistons.

For 1950 Powerglide was introduced and cars with PG used a 235.5-cid engine, based on a truck unit but with hydraulic lifters. Nothing else changed. The Cast Iron Wonder 235.5 was used in 1953 on the non-Powerglide models.

The 1953 models with Powerglide got a new 235.5-cid engine with aluminum pistons, insert rod bearings and full pressure lubrication. This engine lasted through 1962. For 1963 the 230-cid engine used in the Chevelle became available on the big Chevrolets. This engine was first introduced with 194-cid for the new 1962 Chevy II along with a 4-cylinder version.

[meadowbrook]

Thanks for all the info. Especially about a Chevy of all things!!!!