Front suspension question

[Drdialtone]

I've put new shocks on my 47 Club Coupe, but have noticed that on some rougher roads the front has a tendency to "bottom out." This also happens at very low speeds over speed bumps too. My question is, is this indicative of worn out springs? Any other contributing factor?

[greg g]

like most of us springs get weaker with age. Try Springsand things website. Springs are pretty easy to swap out. There have been several threads on how to's.

Edited April 11, 2011 by greg g

[MarkAubuchon]

I am with Greg on this. Replace the front springs, but make sure they are the right height. While you are at it check the king pins and bushings

[Drdialtone]

Thanks Guys, I already bought the springs from Springs and things. On the king pins and bushings, is there a kit for this? If so, where does one get them?

[greg g]

Kanter has them pricey though. some show up from time to time on E bay. You need to make a tool for spacing the upper control arms and a reamer for the kingpins. You proably want to review the process before attempting if you are of moderate mechaical skill. I don't think I would attempt it myself, but your call.

[PatS....]

Try your local independent mom and pop type parts store...not the chains, for the kingpins.

I got one set locally for a friend six months ago and they were in stock.

A knowledgeable NAPA might be able to get them for you too...depends on how much grey the partsman has

On the bushings, measure the spread at both ends of the "A" frame, and write it down before you dis-assemble. Get as close to that spread on re-assembly as possible.

Edited April 11, 2011 by PatS....

[Alshere59]

Just something to check. Are the shocks the right length and are your springs broke? Mine broke right at the bend going into the lower pocket. So I never seen it.

If you decide to go a bit deeper. I just finished my whole front end.

It was a bit nerve racking and I had the kingpins pressed in and out at a local shop. So that part I avoided.

The control arm bushings and assembly I did myself.

Measuring everything using the attachment as a guide helps allot. That and a lot of pictures.

For checking camber I just used a magnetic angle gauge and got it within tolerance. Matter of fact all the alignment shop did was toe, everything else was within tolerance. I even had the negative camber I wanted for radials. Take your manual they wont have your settings in all likelihood.

Springs I got from Espo and the ride height went up but not sure how much as I didn't find out I had a broken spring until I disassembled so no before measurement. It broke right where it enters the lower pocket and was buried in crud so may want to check that. The car sits level now so the rear springs were left alone.

The only od thing I ran into was the kit I bought from Kanters had a different size socket needed for the bushings than what I took it apart with. I also found two bad shafts. Or at least I was unable to thread on the bushings by hand when I test fit everything. Went on about half way then locked up tight. One lower and one upper. So in the long run it would have been cheaper to get the whole kit or "deluxe" kit if you buy from them.

Now that it is done it wasn't bad. At the time yea, I was feeling a bit uneasy. All in all, I have done harder, just as I never have done a complete front end I wasn't real sure of myself.

No special tools other than a bar clamp to maintain the spread.

A pic of mine now that its done.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Alshere59

[Drdialtone]

Thanks Guys. First, I am a rookie, so I will NOT take this on myself! YIKES! I might end up with a three wheeled car - not good. I will inspect the springs; they may be broken. I have noticed the right side is more susceptible to bottoming out than the left (maybe that one is broken). From what I can tell, there has been no replacement of of anything on the front suspension other than the "PLYDO" disk brake set up. The tie rod ends have lost their rubber covers so they are probably on the way out. HEY! 64 years old, I hope I still have working joints!! I am inclined to buy the entire front end kit and have it fully rebuilt. As I said, I have the new springs already, so doing the rest makes sense to me. There is a "Kit" on eBay now for $488, but I'll check Kanter first before pulling the trigger. Thanks!!

[Don Coatney]

When you say "bottom out" what exactly is happening? There are several inches of travel before the suspension actually has no more movement and bottoms out. I have doubts that that is happening. The shock absorbsion on a P-15 only dampens the unsprung weight so these cars have a much greater bump "feel" than modern cars.

[Drdialtone]

A big BANG! As if the travel of the suspension is completely compressed.

[Don Coatney]

When I pass over a chuck hole an inch or so deep I also hear a bang so to speak but it is not the suspension bottoming out. I may be wrong but I feel this sound is normal for a car this old.

I have 62 year old suspension with the exception of somewhat newer shocks. Only a thin layor of carpet for noise insulation, and windows that raddle when the wind blows. So this bang going over bumps is normal to me.

I welcome responses telling me I am wrong for then I will have something else to fix.

[Drdialtone]

Don, it's probably just me "worrying" that there is something else I should get fixed!! I never thought about the little "noise" dampening there is. I do think at 64 years old, it's out there on the road, and that says a lot.

[james curl]

Don, I have been known to bottom mine out when getting airborne over the top of some of the hills on our rural roads when it comes back to earth on the other side, does not take a lot of speed to do so and also at the bottom of the dip on low water crossings. A lot of our local streets should be called Snuff Street because you go a block and take a dip, they use the dips for speed control and water drainage, cheaper than underground drainage with drop inlets, just let it run along the curb or in the ditch.

[Andydodge]

Drdial & Asher.......re the different size socket for the lower outer bush, I have found 2 different hex sizes in these pieces, the bush size, length etc are the same but because there can be the 2 different size hex heads make sure that you have the correct size rubber seal for each bush, it will have an internal hex in the rubber to tightly fit over the hex of the bush........also depending, I suppose, on who made the rest of the bolts & bushes there maybe differences there to what you take off, just make sure the actual "bushing/rotating" parts are the same.........andyd

[greg g]

Frankie, how do you relate shock mount location to full travel??? The suspension travel is determined by the arc through which the lower arm can travel before it contact the frame on compression, and how far the upper can drop on rebound. It can travel the full length even if the spring and shock aren't installed. The shock mearly damps (restricts the tendency of the spring to keep cycling from compressed to released) the springs motion. So what is the limiting ability of the shock and how can it establish full travel. Assuming it is the correct length for the application???

It would seem he is looking to lessen the amount of compression so tha the A arm does not hit the snubber. My guess is his old spring have sagged enough to compromise thier integrity, ther by establishing a lower than normal ride height, and allowing longe compression when he encounters a bump. Or somebody may have cut off a coil, or one or both sprinng may be broken where the break can't be seen through casual observation.

[Don Coatney]

Thanks Greg that puts it in perspective for me:oBut, a shock relocation kit will give the shock greater travel than stock, thus a better ride.

Frankie;

The better ride is not due to increased shock travel. The better ride is due to the shock working on sprung weight as opposed to the stock location working only on unsprung weight.

In other words the stock shock only dampens the spring as it is connected between the upper and lower A arms thus being unsprung weight. The relocation moves the upper shock connection point to the frame not the upper A arm. So the relocation now dampens sprung weight and the driver and passangers are part of this sprung weight thus a better ride.

[Drdialtone]

Greg, this seems most logical. I suspect that the springs are sagging, and this weekend I'll crawl under and inspect for signs of breakage or cuts. I have no idea what previous owners may have done. What I have noticed, is that while driving along, I do not have that "rolling up and down" motion that I see with older cars out on the road. I think that the new shocks have resolved that and had I been more coherent I would have done a "before and after" evaluation! At this point figure she is 64 years old, and giving her new joints and putting new springs in will just be one less thing to obsess about. There may be a time when I cannot get these parts and end up "you know what" creek!! Thanks guys.