Never work angry

[Coffin04]

It will only make you angrier in the end. Especially when extracting a broken stud. you go off and break off two poorly placed extractors into it. Now i need to find a way to get this stud out. Any suggestions? How much would it cost from a professional?

[JIPJOBXX]

Grind the middle of the stud and then split it! Which stud are you talking about anyway?

[Oldguy48]

Can you provide more details, and possibly a photo or two? I'm sure someone on this forum can offer some good suggestions.

[JIPJOBXX]

Use a small deburring tool (One that shaped like a cone). The extractor you probably used was harden metal and you might just heat up the stud and see if the extractor can be soften up so that you could drill down the center of the stud. If you can do this than get out a prick punch and try to bend the remaining material (Stud) inward. If this happens you should be able to break oft bits and pieces of the stud. You will probably haft to re-tap the hole but that is no big deal.

[JIPJOBXX]

I worked for the Navy and had to remove allot of broke oft studs in my days. The grinder was the best tool for removal of a broken of stud extractor. But the best was a machine that literally melted the stud out. Can't remember the name of that equipment.

[RobertKB]

"Never work angry". I have learned this lesson the hard way over the years. It is much better to walk away and come back fresh to the problem. Not sure what advice to give you regarding the stud but there are lots of guys on here who have had similar problems. Drill out the stud and tap the hole is all I can think of but if you have broken extractors in there it makes it hard to drill. Good luck with the project.

[Don Coatney]

But the best was a machine that literally melted the stud out. Can't remember the name of that equipment.

Called a cutting torch.

[Coffin04]

i'll get some pics up when i can. But the details i can provide are that it's the same pivot stud that i was looking to replace just the threaded end that is still stuck in the frame. I wasn't able to get a good hole made in the center. So i have a small space to work in, and no source of electricity. So any tools mentioned need to either be hand tools or don't require an external power source. I can "drive" the car somewhere. But doubtfully.

[bamfordsgarage]

First off, I've never dealt with this particular piece and cannot even picture where it goes, so the following is probably completely off base. However, maybe my suggestion will trigger an idea that actually has some merit...

You may not have to remove the broken stud. It would certainly not be easy with those busted extractors in there.

You might be able to weld the ball stud you have now to a piece of flat steel, say, 1"x3"x1/8", and bolt that assembly to the frame over top of your broken stud. If you had the space to attach the steel plate, the space to work at the frame to drill the holes, the clearance to move the ball 1/8" further from the frame, etc. etc...

Just a thought.

[Coffin04]

Here some picks showing the work space and the source of my rage. The bolt has some shine so the flash made is shinier but you can still see the two poorly placed extractors.

You can see that it's near the pedals. i took a shot through the cabin after removing the floor panel. Who ever did the carpet and the sheet mental patch did a great job of gluing and riveting over this access panel. The one good part was the insulation they put in. Never been cold in this car once the engine got running. Not even in 30f weather going 45mph.

But about the bolt. The bolt broke about a 1/8" in.

And about the extractors. About how much heat do i need to melt them out?

Edited February 27, 2011 by Coffin04

[Coffin04]

did some research on the extractors i bought trying to find out what material they're made out of and found many people complaining about these things snapping left and right. Just my luck right?

[Big_John]

I worked for the Navy and had to remove allot of broke oft studs in my days. The grinder was the best tool for removal of a broken of stud extractor. But the best was a machine that literally melted the stud out. Can't remember the name of that equipment.

There's a machine called a Tap Disintergrator which is a real basic form of an EDM machine. It basically burns the extractor (or tap, drill etc) by eroding it with an electrical arc. Not something most guys have in their home shop though. I used one many years ago to burn out small (4-40) taps.

[Coffin04]

I think i'm going to go with a modification of Shel's idea for now. and later i'll remove the plate and get it extracted properly when i have better funds and more time.

[hkestes41]

There was a recent post about this. Smooth it off and weld a nut to it. The heat tends to help break it loose. I believe it also suggested building it up with flat washers if needed to get a flat surface to weld the nut. I was sure I book marked the link to this but I can not find it now:(

Shel,

Was this the one you were looking for?

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm

[Shawn F.]

I had a similar problem of an extractor breaking off inside of a spindle for my 66 F100 with a twin I beam. I had to drill a hole in it, use a punch and beat the crap out of it to chip it away. The extractor is so hard that it's brittle and will chip into pieces. I would take this approach first and see how it works. If not then the heat method may have to be done but I am not sure what you will use to pull it out.

I have also gotten a fluke type drill bit (not sure of the correct terminology) that is used on bridge ports or upright drills and drilled them out. They have 2 to 4 blades or flukes at the end and will cut through hardened steel. I borrowed this bit from a metals manufacturing class I was taking 5 or 6 years ago, through it in a regular hand drill, and it worked great. Ate right through the tap bit or extractor that broke off. Use some oil too keep it cool and not burn up your bit if taking this approach.

[Coffin04]

So i changed my mind because i'm still determined to reuse the original hole. I'm using a grinding bit instead to flatten out then concave the end of the bot so i can get a bit well centered on it. These are the power tools at my disposal. I also have a Right angle drive because of the tight quarters. The space is so tight i can't get a hammer in to beat it and i don't have a torch. Shawn if you can tell me a bit more about that bit that would be great.

All i have at the moment is a 12v drill and a 12v impact driver.

Set of black oxide drill bits, a conical grinding stone, etc.

can i do anything with what i got and a ton of patience?

[JIPJOBXX]

Just cannot figure out what stud you are trying remove? I thought it was one on the engine but it looks like it somewhere on the frame or on the bell housing? Just wondering-Jon

[oldodge41]

You may be able to use the right angle drill and a small bit to drill out several holes around the extractors creating sort of a honeycomb then once you can get the extractors out go to a larger bit and drill out the whole thing but it would take way more patience than I have. I would be looking real hard at what Bamfordsgarage suggested. The limited space and available tools is gonna make it tough to get it out, so using a different approach to mounting it would be very appealing to me............Tim

[bamfordsgarage]

can i do anything with what i got and a ton of patience?

I think your best bet with that set of tools is the conical grinding bit at the highest RPM available. You might need another one or two to get the job done. My experience with those #@%!& extractors is that they are very hard steel and nothing less than a grinder will have much effect. I have tried to drill them out and only succeeded in dulling my bits (except the one time I busted a drill bit leaving the end in the workpiece beside the broken extractor. Oops).

The Fluted drill bits Shawn used must have been made of some miracle metal— if there is a machine shop supply house nearby you could talk to them and see what they recommend. From your pictures it looks like the busted extractors are very small diameter — maybe you can get a conventional drill bit in beside the extractors to help break up that mess.

Once you finally get the hole cleared you can expect the threads to be in rough shape and not to be trusted. A Heli-Coil or equivalent may be needed to rehabilitate the threads before mounting your replacement stud.

[Coffin04]

so that grinder bit was able to widle down the extractors and so on but now the metal is smoothed out and none of my bits can get a god grip at the center. and the few that have eventually just polish off and spin freely. my ample supply of patience is beginning to run out. I also run into another problem. trying to keep that grinder centered was a pain in the @#$. are there any grinder bits with enough of a point that i might be able to grind out a small hole to start off my bits? Or maybe a bit that won't polish off? I feel like i'm searching for the holy grail of bits here. maybe i should just start her in 3rd and drive down to a machine shop and let them have a whack.

How does the heli-coil work? am i just inserting "new" threads? How well does that hold?

Edited February 27, 2011 by Coffin04

[Coffin04]

JIP, it's on the frame between the frame and the transmission, a few inches in front of the brake petal pivot.

[bamfordsgarage]

How does the heli-coil work? am i just inserting "new" threads? How well does that hold?

http://www.emhart.com/brands/heli-coil

You buy a kit for a specific thread , say, 1/2 NC13. The kit contains a drill bit, a tap, an insertion tool and several threaded inserts (the drill shank may be 1/2" diameter, check that your cordless will accept this). Once you have the hole cleared of the broken stud and extractors, drill out the hole and your old threads with the Heli-coil bit, tap the hole with the Heli-coil tap, screw in the Heli-coil with the special tool, and you're good to go.

Heli-coils are very strong. I've used them now and again for years and never had one fail. However, the kits are not cheap, particularly in the larger sizes.

[rustyzman]

Shawn, it sounds like you are describing and end mill. Not made for hand use, but if it works, then it works. The most common ones are in two and four flute, though many others exist. Carbide would be required as it is harder than the extractor. HSS would just get chewed up.

Carbide burrs in a die grinder would work for this as well.

As for Helicoils, if done correctly they are stronger than the original thread. A bit pricey for the kit, but they are life savers and worth every penny in a tough situation.

Normal screw extractors are notorious for breaking. I have taken out more broken bolts and studs than I can remember and extractors worked about 1 time out of 10. Heat is usually your friend with broken bolts.

[Shawn F.]

rustyzman, you are correct. It's been about 5 or 6 years and I forgot all the names of the machines and bits. Yes it is not for hand use but the instructor gave me one of the bits and said to try it in a hand drill and give it a shot. I did and it worked (slowly). Also used it to drill out a bolt and it worked great. They have them in 2 and 4 flutes on the end (thought it was flukes haha sorry).

As for miracle metal, I have no clue what they were made of but they did the job for me. As for the extractor I took it down as much as I could and then chipped the rest away. It of course destroyed the threads and hole which had to be drilled out and a heli coil used.

[Coffin04]

Think a diamond bur could make a good center hole for my bits to follow? I'm also looking at this: (Diamond coated core drill)

Lastly, getting real tempted to just buy a mig and weld the old ball on there....

always wanted a welder . . .

I'll give that heli-coil a whirl if it gets to that point. I'm also going to look into those end mills. Thanks for the advice.

I know a heat/cold shrink will do the trick but i have no experience with that nor a torch. But i would like to hear more about how to do it. I just can't beleive that out of all the things that could give me trouble and cost me cash it ended up being a broken bolt . . .

What about just JB Welding the old ball stud onto the old stud? Will that make a pretty good hold for a pivot point?

Edited February 28, 2011 by Coffin04