Cavalier rack installation question:

[GaryPrice]

I'm starting to install a Cavalier rack in an early 49 Plymouth. The rack is about 23 1/2" between mounting brackets. However, the frame of the car is about 26" between the frame rails at the mounting point. All the pictures I've seen of the rack, mounted on these cars, show the mounts directly under the frame.

Is there something I'm missing?

[Plymouthy Adams]

did you get the instruction from any on the install of this device...there are but two main things to consider in position the rack...regardless of stock or lowering unrights...yes they do basically mount on the lower frame rails relative to the lower a-arms mounting..

[GaryPrice]

I've been using the instructions someone posted a while back on another thread. Yeah, I have the car level front to back (on the bottom of the frame), and side to side. I put a level on the grease fitting in the center of the lower control arm pivot and marked the frame there. That's where I got a measurement of 26".

[Plymouthy Adams]

the center of the rack as it is perpendicular to the frame must be aligned with the centers of the inner A-arm pivot bar...the rack must then be centered between the frame rails so your turn radius is equal..lock it down here...

[GaryPrice]

Thanks Tim. Yeah, that's the way I was mocking it up. I'm going to double check everything tomorrow, and I'll double check what kind of Cavalier the rack came from. I got one out of a junk yard and I wasn't there when he pulled it. I was told it was a '91, although, I don't know if there's a difference in the width between years or not.

I was trying to be really careful to make sure the center of the rack is level with the center of the a-arm pivot. The mounts on the rack are inside the frame rails though. It looks like, if I weld my mounting plates on the inside of the frame rails and then weld the 1" tubing on them, they'll be about right. Have you ever seen it done that way? Are there any of these cars that have a slightly wider frame?

[Plymouthy Adams]

the kit was designed around the Dodge IF you bought a mount kit somewhere and any and all others are advertized to work but "some trimming required" so making your brackets is pretty much falls back on the installer...sounds like you have this one by the tail..mounting the manner in which you are is supposedly gonna prevent you from bumpsteer issues..once the rack is in position..the tie rods are your next concern..as they have a factory bent drop in these..they also must run parallel to the steering arms and parallel to the rack..ie the quick drop..new center bushing are quick and easy upgraded two part units that are a simple bolt in..the one piece press in units can be a bear..especially if on the car...these are less than 10.00 and I would recommend new on install once the mock up is complete..

[GaryPrice]

Thanks Tim. I'm making my own mounts. While I don't trust my welds on things that my (and others) lives depend on, my brother is a journeyman welder. I'll definitely check out those bushings.

[1lowdown]

I've been using the instructions someone posted a while back on another thread. Yeah, I have the car level front to back (on the bottom of the frame), and side to side. I put a level on the grease fitting in the center of the lower control arm pivot and marked the frame there. That's where I got a measurement of 26".

can you repost these instructions or forward them to me?

Thanks

[19vegas56]

can you repost these instructions or forward them to me?

Thanks

I'd appreciate a copy as well. Thanks.

[1lowdown]

I'd appreciate a copy as well. Thanks.

I Have a 50 Dodge, is there any year Cavilier R&P that is better than others, I was looking at Craigslist yesterday and there is a slew of them on there from a multitude of years... Thanks

[later]

Here is the thread I posted earlier.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=9197

Hope it helps.

[MiltYergens]

I CavRack bolt for my 1941 Plymouth Coupe. I am wondering if there is an effect on the steering radius when compared to the stock steering gear. Does the rack's "travel" equal stock?

[james curl]

Ask Tim Adams, he has a early Dodge Business coupe with dropped uprights and a Cavalier rack, but I think the answer will be yes, it is less. It would be nice if it was more because the stops on the spindles would limit the amount of travel if it has more but if it has less then the turning circle will be greater which is not what you want. Maybe some one else here on the forum has one installed and driving the car can fill us in.

[Andydodge]

I don't have a Cavalier rack in my 40 Dodge but an Austin 1800 rack that I narrowed 9" to get the tie rod arm pivots close to the 40 Dodge lower inner pivot points, I ended up having to have the steering arms reforged and shortened by 1" to get a normal turning circle........this reduction in turning circle is a common problem when using a rack & pinion steering setup.........there isn't an easy solution as far as I know..........andyd

[MiltYergens]

Ironic, since I believe by changing to R&P, we are trying to reduce the turns lock to lock and the steering effort, suddenly, we need an acre to make a U-turn.

[Andydodge]

Milt, actually I think that most uses of a rack & pinion are because of lack of space for an original steering box and the fact that most original ones have a straight column which also interferes with engine swaps etc........andyd

[rockable]

Changing to a rack annd pinion, theoretically, will give you a better handling car, too. The original factory design has unequal length tie rods....not good. As each wheel travels through compression and rebound, the tie rod follows an arc determined by its length and that wheel will change steering position, depending on where the tie rod is in the arc. This is called bump steer when you hit a bump and it occurs. When you are turning the car, the same thing happens and it is called roll steer.

This causes an uneasy feeling with the car. When you couple it with the built in rear steer of a leaf spring suspension it can get pretty hairy, depending on how you drive.

The short tie rod, due to it's shorter arc is subject to more severe toe changes. That is why the car handles more stable turning in one direction than the other. Bump steer and roll steer can be improved somewhat by having the tie rods in a position parallel with the ground. The rack and pinion, if installed correctly, will give you equal length and parallel tie rods. This, coupled with the reduced backlash in the rack, gives you better handling and steering.

Another factor to keep in mind is the aforementioned "rear steer" that is built in. As you turn a corner, the outside rear leaf is compressed which straightens and lengthens it. At the same time the inner leaf is unloaded, which allows it to curve more and shortens it. In effect, if you are making a left hand turn, the rear is turning to the right and helping rotate the car. This works ok in the rear of the car, as long as you are aware of it. It can be reduced somewhat by anti roll bars.

Where it gets really interesting is in a vehicle with leaf springs front and rear, like a pickup. In the front the leafs counteract the steering input at the same time the rear is trying to steer in the opposite direction. This requires more steering input to correct for it. If you are not a smooth driver, you can get into a "sawing" motion with the steering wheel.

Rock

[teardrop puller]

Andydodge

Do you have any pics of what you have done to the steering arms? The turning radius is the next thing I want to address.

Thanks

kai

[Andydodge]

Kai, sorry, I haven't any pics handy, I'll get some and post but when I originally built the car with the 318 Poly I tried to run the original steering box , to the extent that I even cut one of the engine mount "ears" from the block(this was 1973, I WAS young AND stupid!!), still didnt give me enough clearance, so looked around for a rack & pinion, found one from a Morris Minor, mounted that complete with its column, lol......it worked but the turning circle was more than a Mack truck so after talking to a few people it was decided to shorten the steering arms........I didn't do it myself but got it touch with a guy here in Oz, in Sydney where I grew up who was an Automotive Blacksmith, at least thats what was on the sign at his shop, he specialised in doing truck steering and suspension modifications that were approved by the state registration dept, anyway after speaking to him and showing him the arms, he said that he could shorten and reforge the arms which he duly did...........and they have been on the car since, which was about 1974/75 without a problem.........I'll try & get some pics of what it looks like, I now have an Austin 1800 rack which was much stronger but still had to be narrowed 9" to get the pivot points in alignment with the lower inner suspension arm pivots...........andyd

[HughForrest]

I CavRack bolt for my 1941 Plymouth Coupe. I am wondering if there is an effect on the steering radius when compared to the stock steering gear. Does the rack's "travel" equal stock?

I have the Cavalier rack in my '38 Chrysler and I'd say it definitely has a bigger turning radius now than it did stock. Of course it also is much easier to drive in every other way.

I used the "Quick steer" or "Sport" version of the rack,. I've heard, but not verified, that the standard version somehow allows a tighter turning radius.

[MiltYergens]

I agree with you Andydodge about clearances. The flattie requires minimal width. The cure for the turning radius issue is shorter steering arms of that can be done safely.

[GaryPrice]

The instructions 48Chrysler posted are the ones I was referring to.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have the Cavalier rack in my '38 Chrysler and I'd say it definitely has a bigger turning radius now than it did stock. Of course it also is much easier to drive in every other way.

I used the "Quick steer" or "Sport" version of the rack,. I've heard, but not verified, that the standard version somehow allows a tighter turning radius.

with the slight disadvantage of the wider steering circle..my 383 will more than make up the difference with just a bit of acceleration with the steering wheel turned..

[MiltYergens]

Is the radius affected for 90 degree parking, parallel parking or just U turns? I'm asking how noticeable this increase in turning radius is on a day to day basis in a restored car, hot or street rod?

[fstfish66]

i have a first gen caviler power rack on my 40 dodge coupe,,its a fat man kit,,it uses the cav tie rods,and an adapter fitting from fat man to go from the cav tie rod to the outer tie rod ends i believe are datsun,,kit was installed when i purchased the car,, at first the power pump had way to much flow,,i sent the pump to unisteer and they decreased the flow,,i havent driven it much since then,,but the steering it not so sensitive now,,, the car is in storage till the end of this year when i hope to get back to sorting out the previous owners,,,,build