Got a leak....

[boxer_inv]

Hi all

Haven't been very active lately, busy with work and doing some travelling interstate.

Today I took Dorothy out for a run with a new club - lots of good people and a few interesting cars, the following being one of them - Jaguar C-Type. Lovely car...

Anyhow, after travelling the 50-odd miles to the meeting, I discovered that Dorothy was leaking water from somewhere. It was difficult to pinpoint where it is coming from, but best I can see is that it is from around the under side of the water pump where it attaches to the head.

Is this a common area for leaks to occur, and what will I be involved in the repair? I'm anticipating that removal of the radiator etc will be needed to access, and I'm also thinking that if removing the water pump is going to be required, then attacking the distribution tube may also be foretold amongst the tea-leaves...

What say you all? Advice always welcome.

Rob.

[Andydodge]

Rob, think the water pump seal could be on the way out, I thought my Plymouth had a bung water pump as it was making a lot of noise in that directio, replaced it and found it was the crank pully coming loose from the crank hub........duh!!!.......anyway if I were you i'd try and confirm that its the water pump, it maybe the lower hose where it meets the pump leaking or from around that area and not the pump but if it is the pump then I'd get a new one unless you like playing with seals etc to put a kit in it........andyd

[Jim Yergin]

If it is the pump, it can be replaced without removing the radiator. At least I did it that way on my '41 Plymouth. Of course you won't be able to remove the water distribution tube without removing the radiator, etc.

Jim Yergin

[boxer_inv]

Hi

Today I got some time to investigate this leaking around the water pump. I pulled the radiator and fan and had a look - see the following photographs. Seems there is a hole in the housing under the shaft - weep hole or something - and this is where the water is coming out. I dried it all up and then put some water back into the inlet, and out it came - very steady drip.

So, after checking the archives of this fine forum, I'm led to believe that a new water pump is the likely repair? Question being, where in Australia would I pick up something like this, or how should I approach a replacement/repair...?

Also - I've read on the archive threads (and in my manual) about there being a pin which holds the hub onto the shaft. I can't see any trace of there being a pin inserted to hold it on. Am I just being blind....or is there a chance this hub could be threaded on.....????

[Andydodge]

Rob, thats the water pump seal gone R/S.....when i first got my 40 Dodge back in 1971 I had a go at replacing the water pump seal with a seal kit.......pain in the arse job, ended up breaking the fibre washer from memory, had to get another kit......I learnt what had to be done and kits were cheap and available back then still......as far as I know the only guy selling new water pumps in Oz is Jim Robinson in Victoria, I got one from him about 5-6mths ago and it was $169.00 plus postage, apparently the new ones have a different seal setup or something more modern than the original ones......also from memory when doing a seal kit you have to take care pressing the shaft/hub/impeller together..... Jim Ribinson does a bit of selling on ebay or just phone him direct on 03-5345 4094 or www.Dodgeparts.com.au ........regards, andyd

[boxer_inv]

Thanks for the info and comments Andy. I've emailed Jim about a pump and we'll see what he comes back with.

Guess I'm going to take this one off in the meantime...

[Andydodge]

Rob, found the paperwork for the pump i got from Jim Robinson, it was August last year.....time flys when your having fun...lol.......andyd

[Joe Flanagan]

Rob,

NAPA sells them for about $80. I don't know if you have NAPA in Australia, but I bought a new one a couple of months ago. The shaft on mine was gone and was blowing coolant mixed with grease out the front. It would hit the fan and spray all over the place. Really nice mess.

[Andydodge]

Joe, NAPA is a US company, we have a few national companies here in Oz, tho' as Plymouth as a make basically disappeared about 50 yrs ago from the Oz market its an uphill battle to find anyone who can remember what mopar is........lol...........andyd

[boxer_inv]

Andy

I got a response back from Jim - he sent through a bit of a price list. Just as an interesting exercise, I've copied it below for others to see . He confirmed water pumps in stock - $169.00.

1946 to 48

DODGE, PLYMOUTH, DESOTO AND CHRYSLER.

THIS IS A PRICE GUIDE ONLY AND PRICES WILL BE CONFIRMED AT TIME OF ORDER.

RUBBER SEALS FOR 1946 TO 48 MOPAR MODELS.

PRICE GUIDE

23/3/04

PRICES MAY CHANGE AFTER THIS DATE.

SCREEN SEAL after market material 4 MTRS FRONT REQUIRED $14.40per mtr

BAILEY CHANNEL $98.50 per 2.4 mtr length

WINDOW SWEEPER internal $86 per 2.4 mtr length WINDOW SWEEPER EXTERNAL $86 per 2.4 mtr length

REAR ¼ VENT WINDOW OPENING TYPE $24 per mtr FRONT ¼ VENT WINDOW $26.60 per mtr ¼ VENT UPRIGHT $18 per pair

DOOR SEAL RUBBER 12.60 per mtr

BOOT SEAL RUBBER $18.40 per mtr COWL VENT SEAL $24 per seal AUTO-GLUE EXCELLENT FOR GLUEING RUBBER TO CAR BODYWORK $8.80 per 250ml tube

FRONT END PARTS

UPPER INNER CONTROL ARM SHAFT AND BUSH KIT $115

LOWER INNER CONTROL ARM SHAFT AND BUSH KIT $115- $125

UPPER OUTER CONTROL ARM BUSH KIT REBUILD YOURS $115

LOWER OUTER CONTROL ARM BUSH KIT NEW $115

REBUILD YOURS $

INNER TIE ROD ENDS $76

OUTER TIE ROD ENDS $76

KING PIN SET DOES BOTH SIDES OF CAR $107.50

UPPER BUMP STOPS $18

IDLER ARM KIT REBUILD YOURS $???

LOWER BUMP STOPS $24.60

SWAY BAR RUBBERS SET OF 4 RUBBERS $54.00

WHEEL BEARING INNER $24.00

WHEEL BEARING OUTER $18.65

SHOCK ABSORBERS $168 THE PAIR

SIDE VALVE 6 MOTOR PARTS.

PRICES MAY CHANGE WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE AFTER THE ABOVE DATE. THIS IS A VERY GOOD PRICE GUIDE AND FIRM PRICES WILL BE GIVEN AT THE TIME OF ORDERING. MOST LIKELY THE SAME AS THESE IN THIS GUIDE.

HEAD GASKET $90- $125 depends on which motor

VALVE REGRIND SET $176

FULL GASKET SET $215

MANIFOLD GASKET SET $44

SUMP GASKET SET $32

REAR MAIN SEAL $65 NOT WITH GASKET SET

TIMING COVER SEAL $32 NOT WITH GASKET SET

CAM BEARINGS $65

MAIN BEARINGS 185 TO $ 265 DEPENDING ON MOTOR AND SIZE REQUIRED

BIG END BEARINGS $ 185 TO $ 215 DEPENDING ON MOTOR AND SIZE REQUIRED

SMALL END BUSH SET $56

PISTON AND RINGS SET, MATCH SET WITH PINS $768

RINGS ONLY $80 PERFECT CIRCLE SET OR $228 STIRLING AND OTHER MAKES

INLET VALVE $ 24 TO $ 35 DEPENDING ON MOTOR AND SIZE REQUIRED

EXHAUST VALVE $ 24 TO $ 35 DEPENDING ON MOTOR AND SIZE REQUIRED

VALVE GUIDES $12 EACH

TIMING CHAIN $125

WATER PUMP $169

WATER TUBE $89

FUEL PUMP $90

OIL PUMP REPAIR KIT $105

[Young Ed]

Can you order one online from Napa and have it shipped? Got any friends in the US that would buy you one and send it over?

[Plymouthy Adams]

that price list alone is enough incentive to go modern engine and subframe...or at minimum R&P upgrade...

[boxer_inv]

Can you order one online from Napa and have it shipped? Got any friends in the US that would buy you one and send it over?

My only US friends are great folks of this forum!!

that price list alone is enough incentive to go modern engine and subframe...or at minimum R&P upgrade...

What sacrilegious utterance is this...???

I have to admit, the $169.00 for the pump hasn't scared me off totally. Some of those other prices do, though....

[Joe Flanagan]

85 from NAPA here in the US. Even if you add shipping I would think you'd do better than 169.

[boxer_inv]

Here is a pic I took of the opening into the water distribution tube.

How does this compare to others you've seen - as far as being blocked/clogged/gunked up??? I was thinking I'd find it far more contaminated than this, but it actually appears to be quite good.

Question is....should I pull it and replace??

[Andydodge]

Rob, that looks like a brass/copper tube, give it a scratch & check, if either then the tube should be fine but it still may have a heap of crud in it, I'd see if it wants to come out easy and knock a couple of welch plugs out then give the tube hole a flush with a hose, with the couple of plugs out the crud then has somewhere to get out, otherwise you're just moving the crud around but not really getting rid of it.........btw in Jim Robinsons defence re the prices, the Oz market is VERY small compared to the US, consequently he either has to have higher prices I suppose or go out of business, at least he is trying to offer a local alternative to importing the stuff yourself.........btw the US Post Office has a website, and this applies to anyone here......weigh whatever you intend to post and checkout what it will cost to post from the US to OZ.........sometimes the local guy works out much cheaper, sometimes not.........andyd

[boxer_inv]

Andy

Tube looks like it's brass/copper from close up - I'll give it a scratch when I get home. Which welch plugs can be removed - on the head or block? (I haven't looked too closely around that side of things actually, as my previous welch plug experience was on the other side (good fun!!)

Also, I'm presuming that the water distribution tube would have to be longer for my 25" block than a standard 23".....? The pricing doesn't specify 2 length options.

Naturally, I'm anticipating that all which has been written previously in this and other forums about removing water distribution tubes is wildly exaggerated, and I'll simply be able to put a hooked length of steel into the tube and pull it out by hand, a-la the nice picture in the service manual.....

Regards your comments about Jim's pricing - I totally agree with you and I wouldn't for one moment suggest he should be as cheap as items in the US.

I noted what Joe said about the NAPA price - but then we in OZ need to factor in the postage and then the exchange rate too (which is up nice and high at the moment!), which obviously lifts the final cost. I reckon that getting it out of the US would cost around the $120 - $130 mark anyway, but then there is always the issue of what to do if the part isn't correct, or doesn't work etc etc. Those issues aren't a problem with 'inert' parts like trim etc, but I think its something worth bearing in mind when dealing with mechanical items such as a water pump. I'm sure that Jim would give good service in the event of a problem, and much closer at hand to get it sorted.

[Joe Flanagan]

If shipping one from the US gets up that high, I'd buy local. And yeah, the prospect of dealing with a wrong part long distance isn't appealing.

Your water distribution tube looks pretty gunk-free in the picture. You might get lucky with some pulling and tapping. I did on my fifty-plus-year-old flathead.

[james curl]

I have pulled three different ones from three different engines without any difficulty, of course they were all three brass.

[aero3113]

I used a slid hammer to pull mine,worked great. I had to grind down the hook to fit in the tube and catch the first hole.

[boxer_inv]

Bought a new water pump from Jim Robinson as referred by andydodge.

Man - its a heavy sucker and I'm guessing the shipping from the US would have been prohibitive to import one myself. Very good service from him too.

Part is nice and shiny and new....well, not shiny, but definitely new!

Will be looking to install this weekend and get Dorothy ticking over again.

I attempted to move the water tube with some persuasive tapping, but no luck. Given its current relatively 'gunk-free' state, I'm going to leave as-is to get the car on the road again.

[Joe Flanagan]

Can you see into the tube using a flashlight? From the picture you posted it looks very clean. My NAPA water pump works very nicely. Don't know if I already posted this, but the shaft on the old pump was gone and there was too much clearance between it and the new bushings I'd installed. I had a nice mixture of anti-freeze and marine grease coming out, hitting the fan, and getting sprayed all over the engine bay. I'm still cleaning it up.

I'm guessing that if you considered the cost of shipping from the US, you're probably just as well you bought local.

[1942cowdodge]

I shipped something about the same size as your water pump using the standard mailing boxes we have here in the USA. If the item will fit in the box than that's all the cost of it will be. I would contact Hagens Auto Part in Washington state and see if they could ship something like that to you in one of those special boxes?

[Plymouthy Adams]

those special boxes, Flat Rate Shipping do have limitations...75 lbs if conus and a great deal...you get weight restrictions and almost double cost if going just across the border..would hate to guess what the cost to an Aussie destination would be..

In the USA however these are about the best bang for the buck..

[Andydodge]

The thing with shipping is that within the US they probably still use trucks for the standard rate or a box size rate but once you get international, specifically overseas then its by plane, apparently there is no sea mail for postal items any more, just airmail so it becomes a fairly expensive exercise as the weight is the main factor, then of course every business in the US wants to send us in the rest of the world the goods via UPS or Fed Ex rather than the US Post Office as UPS & Fed Ex will pick up the goods from the business whereas the US Post Office, like most Post Offices by the way doesn't pickup so its "easier" BUT much dearer to get the goods.......I've rung different speed shop companies over the years like Speedway Mtrs, Summit etc and after lodging orders have then been told that they only ship UPS or Fed Ex and being told that they offer such a wonderful "service"..........yeh at 3 times the Post Office price I'd expect so!!.......so I cancell the order and go somewhere else.......this type of thing is very common for us poor sods in the rest of the world.........lol..........anyway just thought I'd throw my 3 cents worth in.........maybe only 2 cents now as the Pacific Paeso, aka the Oz dollar has **** itself over the past week........anyone take an IOU?.........lol..........regards, andyd