Titles, legal issues and other fun

[austinsailor]

I've been pressuring a local legislator to introduce a bill to make it easier tp register old "barn find" type vehicles in Mo. In Kansas all you need is a bill of sale on 1949 or older, Texas has a bonded title processes. In mo you'd have to hire a lawyer, file a court case and hope the judge would issue a ruling to give you a title. Of course, you'd better have a thick wallet.

The legislatur asked the DOR to look into it.

They found that Mo. Has a bonded title processes on the books but they haven't been using it and nobody knew about it.

I just left the license office, after many calls to the Capitol, they've figured out they can and will do it.

What a great discovery for us old vehicle nuts!

[oldmopar]

As you noted different states have different rules. In NJ where I live its such a PIA to try to get a title for a vehicles without one I will only buy a vehicle without a title if its for parts and eventually heading for the scrap yard.

But in this time when states are looking for money you would think some elected official would fix the law making it easier to get title for older vehicles they could charge 2 or 3 time the normal title rate and make revenue for the state.

[JoelOkie]

Here in Oklahoma you can also petition a judge for a title. I have heard it takes a while to get it done, and some red tape involved, but I haven't tried it. I have titled two vehicles in the laast few years through International Title Company, who are easy to find on the web. It's quick and easy, and cost $150.00 for a pickup, which, (if you buy the vehicle cheap enough), is not too bad. The paperwork comes from Alabama in about a week, or two, you take it to the local tag agency and in a few days the State sends back a title. Joel

[austinsailor]

I went through international about 6 years ago, $120, worked great. Tried it about a month ago, $225, but before I got it, laws changed, it was going to be $450.

This processes I've found isn't ideal, cost about $125, you get a salvage title which can be changed to a real title when it's drivable. But better than the court/judge route.

[1949P17BC]

What does the missouri law mean?

[Fernando Mendes]

This is a GMC CCKW 353 6x6 1944 that I bought in january'2005 without title.Now in january'2010(after five years) I will try a petition to judge to its title.It was working during fifteen years loading mud in a brick field shop.Before & After pics.

[PatS....]

Really lucky here, just a bill of sale for any year of car, new or barn find. Bill of sale can be written by hand on a paper towel and be legal.

No government safety either...but most insurance companies require one though.

[austinsailor]

That is interesting. I'm going to pick up the truck I bought in Manitoba soon, and there will only be a bill of sale from the seller. I was under the impression you all had some sort of title, although it is called something else. If you only use a bill of sale, that will probably work for me and I won't have to go through this bonding processes on that truck.

Please tell me more. If you sell to another Canadian, is a bill of sale all that is available, or is it that they'll allow you to register it, but there are other ownership documents, just not mandentory?

[austinsailor]

>What does the missouri law mean?

Since you're from St. Louis, this is probably of more interest to you.

What I've found is that there is a little used statute that allows you to get a salvage title on vehicles over 25 years old by putting up a bond that guarentees if there is a claim from someone else, they get paid for the vehicle. The bond is pretty much a technicality.

Do a google search on "Missouri 301.217", look at paragraph 2. This covers it.

You'll submit:

-The application for title, form 184

-bond

-bill of sale (or whatever documents you have to support your application, but notorized bill of sale from someone is best)

-Statement of Fact, a written statement explaining why you have the vehicle and whatever else you can tell to help someone understand why it's yours

-2 appraisals from licensed car dealers. This is optional, your other choice is to pay for a bond on the blue book value of the vehicle. My rusty 48 pickup came up as $9000, when in fact it was a $1000 or less truck. The bond cost is based on the value assigned to the vehicle times 1.5, so it's in your best interest to get the appraisals to get the cost down. Minimum bond cost is $100. My one in Texas was $205.

I would recommend you print out 301.217 and take a copy with you so they don't blow you off if you go to a local office to get help getting papers in order.

I was told it had to be taken to Jeff City, not a local office to be processed.

With this, you'll get a salvage title. That can be turned into a real title later by paying a $25.50 fee and getting it inspected by the highway patrol.

I spent a bit of time at the license office today. They had no clue what I was talking about, but a few calls to Jeff, talks with supervisors there, they came up with all this. I figured it would be a long time getting to the point where they would work on it, but they came up with a clear set of things, and it seems like it'll work fine. I gathered that this hadn't been used before. Salvage titles for newer cars are common so the wrecking yards and insurance companies can work a late model vehicle through the system, but using this paragraph for the old ones is not common, and maybe never used before.

I should have mine through the system by the middle of next week. I'll post the results here when I get done. Having done it in Texas 2 weeks ago on another truck, though, it seems like they are on track with what they are doing.

I mentioned this to a member of the old wheels club locally, and they are excited to find there is a way to get their old model t's on the road without a court processes. I'm excited because I won't have to haul them across the country to get paperwork on them. And the DOR knows I have a legislator looking over their shoulder, so I don't think they'll make it extra difficult!

[greg g]

one thing ya gotta love about NY, not titles till 73, anything older, you fill out an affidavit, sign it, take it with a rubbing of the serial number and off you go with a transferable registration.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/mv51b.pdf

[grey beard]

I believe we will discover that in the next few years - mebby even sooner - all state motor vehicle laws - AND title laws - will come into the common denominator of Federal oversight, just as we have seen CDL laws evolve.

Twenty five years ago, my brother and I purchased a salvage busines - junk yard - in NJ. We were able to make this then-fortunate buy because the previous owner had made the mistake of having ONE vehicle in his seven-acre salvage yard that did not have a title. He didn't go to prison, but paid a huge fine and had to sell his business. You'd better believe that we never towed the first car into that yard that did not have a title.

Here in PA, it is relatively easy to get a title for an older vehicle that has none. The game varies in each state. My guess is that all this will soon become a thing of the past, just as truckers holding drivers' licenses from three states has.

D'ya suppose Big Brother really IS watchin"?

[Fernando Mendes]

This mine GMC 1944 was sold at auction by a quarter near my house in 1990 without title or paper,because it was intended for a partition.In this case the quarter don't give the papers.

[screwshiney]

why not get a title and vin plate from another car and title it under that? that would make life much easier.

i'm currently selling a 1950 international and have no title. however i did find a guy that has a vin plate and title that i was considering purchasing and just using that.

personally i don't see any way of that not working.

[Fernando Mendes]

Here in Brazil nobody politics wants to solve this problem.

[austinsailor]

> why not get a title and vin plate from another car and title it

>under that? that would make life much easier.

>i'm currently selling a 1950 international and have no title. however

>i did find a guy that has a vin plate and title that i was considering

>purchasing and just using that.

>personally i don't see any way of that not working.

When the Highway Patrol inspects it, and they look at the frame number and it doesn't match, your trouble will start.

By the way, I got my two appraisals today, tomorrow I drive to the Capitol and see how this works.

[Fernando Mendes]

Yesterday,I spoke with my wife cousin,she is a lawyer,in next january,25th 2010 we will start the process to give a title for me.I will give her only a buy/sell proof and two witnesses to begin the process.Remember,my truck don't have nothing of papers I hope to pay about R$2.000,00(reais) or $1,000 or perhaps she don't charge for me.

[screwshiney]

> why not get a title and vin plate from another car and title it

>under that? that would make life much easier.

>i'm currently selling a 1950 international and have no title. however

>i did find a guy that has a vin plate and title that i was considering

>purchasing and just using that.

>personally i don't see any way of that not working.

When the Highway Patrol inspects it, and they look at the frame number and it doesn't match, your trouble will start.

By the way, I got my two appraisals today, tomorrow I drive to the Capitol and see how this works.

i hear ya however if you get a new vin plate made then there wouldn't be any issue. also it's not very likely for that to happen in jersey.

[austinsailor]

In mo they look at everything with a number. Might not be a problem if they don't match, I don't know.