Sock filter vs can filter ?

[oldmopar]

The discussion below on trying to squeeze in a sock filter had me wondering. What is the difference in filtering between the sock and can type drop in filters.

[TodFitch]

Sock is a "depth" media filter while the "can" type is a surface media filter. The depth type can actually get out much smaller particles than the surface media type. In the 1936-48 parts book the depth media filter is listed as the heavy duty filter.

[desoto1939]

From looking at both units I do not think there is any major difference inthe filtering of the oil.

The effiency of the filtering element is the most important part of the filter eithe sock or the drop in paper unit or the old style throwaway unit. In our modern oil filters they measure onthe filtering of the size of metals and other particles. The manufacturers list this as Microns most of the older filters that we are using list a Micron filter size of 25 -30 Microns. Sothe lower the number the better that the filter is in holding onto small particles of dirt and or metal.

Here is an example from Wixx, ther filters handle an average of 25 microns. A human hair measures approx 70 microns in diameter. This might help with the understanding of the size that the oil filter will retain.

So the more costly the filter I woudl assume the lower micron rating on a filter. I looked at some of the NAPA Gold 1010 filter which is use in my 39 Desoto which is a paper element that goes into the metal canisters and this has a rating of 30 Microns so something that is 1/2 the diameter of a human hair would then be retaiend by the filter.

I know some owners are attaching a flexable magnet onto the outside of the metal housing to help collect and larger metal particles. I did see a demo in which some old used motor oil was placed in a glass gar and they put a mahgnet onthe side and then stirred the oil. They removed the oil and the area where the magnet was attached or taped to the jar had a retained a film of reidue or metal particles.

So i guess one of these magnets might also be of some help and then when you change the oil and the filter you just wipe the inside of the canister and the metal particles are then removed at the same time.

The magnet can also be used onthe spin on filters and then just take it off when you change the filter and then put it back on the new filter.

Another question is are you putting oil into the spin on filter prior to putting it on the car. There are many discussions that this should be done to prevent a dry sump and to have oil inthe filter upon initial startup when the oil is changed.l

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Dan Babb]

If the difference between the sock and the canister type is the microns it will filter...could you use the canister type if you can't get a sock type to fit?

That would be better than nothing...right?

[Merle Coggins]

If your canister is designed for the sock type filter element, than that's what should be used. This canister is designed to squeeze the element down tight within the can so that the oil is forced to migrate through the element and up through the perforated dome that is holding it down. The space above the dome is open to the return port where the oil can return to the engine sump. If you put another type of element in there it may not seal properly and will allow the oil to bypass the element entirely and return to the engine unfiltered. Then you might as well put the cover back on with nothing in there and run it that way.

When I changed my oil this spring I had the same problem that you are facing. I finally took the cover assembly apart and put a longer bolt in there so that I could draw the element down the rest of the way. I don't remember it being that tough to install when I first rebuilt the engine and installed my filter. (my truck didn't have a filter when I got it. I found a Deluxe Filter on ebay) I wonder if Wix, who makes Napa's filters, is getting sloppy with their manufacturing tolerances and the new ones are fatter. EDIT: Now that I think about it, I believe most of the install problems on the last filter change were due to the fact that the cloth on the inside had a twist in it and the center tube didn't want to slide up through it. Check that the center is open to allow the tube to come through.

The cover of my filter is clearly stamped with the cartridge number. This crosses to the Napa 1011 or Wix 51011 in their catalogs. I wonder if Baldwin, Donaldson, Fram, or anyone else makes these filter elements that would fit better?

Merle

Merle

Edited October 29, 2009 by Merle Coggins

[Merle Coggins]

Couldn't find a cross for it on Donaldson's web site, but I did for Baldwin.

Filter number = JC405

Descriptions: Cotton and Fiber Media By-Pass Lube Sock with Pull-Out Bail Handle

Fits: Clark Lift Trucks; Dodge Trucks; Hercules Engines

Replaces: Chrysler 1504092; Clark 955290

O.D.: 4 (101.6)

I.D.: 9/16 (14.3) & 1 5/16 (33.3)

Length: 5 1/4 (133.4)

F. Gskt.: G127

End Seals: [1] Attached

UPC: 7 91440 00469 6

[Merle Coggins]

A little more surfing netted these crosses for the Deluxe JC cartridge;

Fram C120E = http://www.power-21.com/FramPower21i/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=C120E

Hastings LF501 = This appears to be the same as the Baldwin JC405 in the post above. Baldwin and Hastings are part of the same parent company. (Clarcor)

Wix 51011 = (same as Napa 1011 Gold) http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51011

Fleetgard LF505 = http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/catalog/partsearch.do?reqCmd=PartInformation&partNumber=LF505&PartType=Lube,%20Cartridge&partflag=0&currentPage=1

[grey beard]

Merle,

That is fine info to have. Thanks for the research time, Merle. My truck also uses this element.

[Dan Babb]

Just got off the phone with Fram. They no longer makes the C120E and don't have an equivalent replacement.

Trying Hastings next.

[OLD DODGE]

There was a batch of these oversized filters produced that has plagued the Dodge community for a while. It has been well documented on some of the other websites. Wix, who suppllies NAPA with their filters, had arbitrarily changed the size so the old filters would fit but the newer bigger ones would not. They both had the same part number.

Todd Wilson worked with Wix to correct this problem. It is supposed to be fixed now. If you pick up some old shelf stock you may still run into the oversized ones. Best to measure before you buy.

Here is a link to Todd's photos showing the difference.

http://www.chargerfever.com/51011/index.html

[HanksB3B]

Who should I buy from online ? I've run into the oversize sock problem and would like to replace the make-shift paper filter I'm using with the real deal.

Please let me know who arries the correct sock.

Thanks,

Hank

[Dan Babb]

Thank you for the info on the WIX issue. That gives me what I need to bring the thing back to Napa and have them find me the right one.

[OLD DODGE]

Here is some of the discussion on the filters.

http://www.t137.com/archives/wwwboard298/messages/2980312.html

http://www.texaspowerwagon.com/oil_filter_debate.htm