Clutch change help please

[38plymouth]

I started pulling things apart this morning. The noise in the clutch was getting worse last night. I got the inspection cover off and I can wiggle the throwout bearing around, I'm not sure if there should be any play at all. I also have quite a bit of oil inside of there. I pulled the driveshaft and one half of the flloorboard. (I didn't pull the floorboard that the throttle pedal is sitting on, I can't figure out how the pedal comes off, I'm thinking it may not be necessary though) I'm at the point where there are just 4 bolts holding the trans. in place. I ran out of time and I have some questions before I go any further. I think I may have a few hours Saturday morning to work on it again.

Does the engine need to be supported when I unbolt the trans? If so where since I think I need to pull the oil pan to change the rear seal.

Do I just unbolt the trans. and slide it backwards to pull the shaft from the engine?

Do I need to unbolt and remove the bellhousing to take the clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing out? It almost looks like it will all drop straight down once unbolted and when the trans. is removed.

How the heck does the shifter come out? My manual doesn't show much for detail on theis job.

I have leaks coming from the rear of the engine, from the transmission and from the rearend. I want to fix all of them while I'm doing this. It looks like seals need to be replaced, what else should I need for gaskets?

I would really appreciate some advice, I have never changed a clutch or pulled a transmission before. I guees it's about time I learned, It's about the only part of a car I haven't worked on.

[Jim Yergin]

I can only relate my experience with my '41 P12. The engine does not need to be supported to remove the transmission, the engine has rear mounts that hold it up. The clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing may be replaced without removing the bell housing. The lower inspection pan allows access to the the bolts holding the pressure plate. Just rotate the flywheel to losen each bolt a little bit at a time until the pressure is released evenly. I take out the spark plugs to make it easier to rotate the engine. I do not need to disconnect the clutch pedal. Once the transmission is out you can unhitch the throwbearing from the spring clips holding it to the clutch fork and remove it. My car has column shift so I just have to disconnect the linkage from the transmission. If yours is a floor shift I would think that you merely unbolt the top shifter cover and lift out the shifter but I will defer to those who know better. Yes, you remove the transmission by unbolting from the rear of the engine, sliding it back and then lower it. I bought a scissors transmission jack from Harbor Freight that really works well.

Hope this helps.

Jim Yergin

[38plymouth]

Thank you for the info, is the trans. really heavy enought to need a jack? It looks pretty small compaired to an automatic. I was thinking I could just slide it out by hand. I need to look again, I didn't see any rear engine mounts.

[Jim Yergin]

You probably can remove it by hand and even get it back in that way if you are strong enough to hold it up while you line up with any guide pins you use. Mine is a very heavy overdrive unit that my son and I couldn't get lined up no matter how hard we tried. The $80 transmission jack was well worth the cost.

Jim Yergin

[greg g]

When I shipped one it was 85 lbs with the packaging, so I if you have the jack why ot use it? When I did mine a made a cradle that I put on my florr jack. Even if you fell strong enough why take the chance of buggering you pilot bushing.

[Troganin]

A jack will make things alot easier. Geting it out wasnt hard I supported it with a sling that I tied around the support for the dash. Then transfered it to my shoulders when removing and letting down to the ground. Putting it back in was not as easy, basicly it was bench pressing it up while someone else put the bolts in. If I do it again there will be a jack involved. Best of luck fixing your leak and clutch.

[Oldguy48]

The transmission is much easier to remove than put back in. Wrestling with that 65 lbs, while flat on your back is a challenge to say the least. And as someone pointed out, you could damage the pilot bushing trying to align things. Save your back, and use a jack (Hey, that sounded like a poem, but wasn't intentional) Anyway, best to not attempt it without the proper tools. I know I've learned my lesson. It isn't worth the risk.

[Reg Evans]

I'm getting ready to replace the 3 speed floor shifter transmission in my 38 Dodge coupe. The one in there now lost a tooth in 1st gear. On my 38 the floor boards unbolt within 1" of the front of the seat bottom. I will remove both floor boards and the seat cushion. That way you can straddle the transmission and just pull it out. I would leave the gear shift stick installed too so you have a ready made handle for lifting and pulling. If you are going to remove your clutch disk and pressure plate you'll need to get those realigned when it goes back together. You might be able to find a plastic splined thing a ma jig at the auto parts store but I have just used a broom handle or piece of PVC pipe in the past. Just don't tighten the pressure plate all the way down until you have the trans. all the way back in. Check the surface of the flywheel too while it's apart. If it's not too bad a little sanding will do it good.

Good luck ! OH..... if bad words start to flow out of you mouth uncontrollably a little duct tape might come in handy.

PS. I just weighed my 3 speed and it only weighed in at 59 lbs without the E brake disk on the rear of the trans.

[dezeldoc]

Do it the easy way, get 2 longer bolts to use (2 1/2") as starter bolts, slide it in and put the starter bolts in, slowly tighten them in till you get a little resistance on them. i put one in the top and one in the opposite lower corner. now push the clutch pedal in and the thing should slide right in. you might need someone to push the pedal for you while you push it in.

Edited August 6, 2009 by dezeldoc

[Don Coatney]

In the old days I had no problem mustleing in transmissions in several vehicles including automatics and large trucks. However these days my body will no longer do what my mind tells it to do. Use a jack.

Also never use guide bolts to drive the transmission all the way home. When things are alighned correctly the transmission will mate flush with the bell housing with no mechanical leverage advantage required. If it fails to do so stop! If you try and use bolts to take it home something will break or bend. Dont do it.

[38plymouth]

I have a floorjack that I can probably use to hold the trans. I still can'tfigure out how the shifter comes out. There is a plate on the top of the trans that the shifter goes thru that is bolted in. Should I unbolt that to get it out?

[james curl]

I used two 6" bolts that I cut the heads off of, rounded the sharp edge with about an 1/8" bevel then cut screwdriver slot in each one. You install the two bolts into the bellhousing to slide the transmission on to support the input shaft and its bearing from the weight of the transmission while installing. After the transmission is all the way in install bolts in the two empty holes, unscrew the guide bolts and install the last two bolts. I always use a splined alignment tool that can be bought at any auto parts house, just measure the O.D. of the input shaft and the pilot bearing dia and get one with the correct number of splines to install the clutch and pressure plate.

[38plymouth]

I used guide pins made from grade 2 bolts, and threaded rod to help with removal and installation. Cut off heads, slot the end for easy removal.

Do not use a long guide pin for installation where you do not have enough room to remove it to put the mounting bolt back in. I had to cut one off with a hacksaw. Not a lot of fun.

During the installation, final alignment may be made easier by depressing the clutch pedal once you have it most of the way in, and it starts to fight you. This was suggested by others here on the forum when I was doing it the second time. Made life a lot easier.

You can only wiggle and shake the transmission just so many times before the duct tape applied to the mouth starts to come loose.

Pic 3 shows my trans. strapped to a homemade cradle used on the floor jack.

Is that gasket in your pictures available? I seem to remember reading on here during a search that people are making them themselves.

[greg g]

You need to make he gasket. Lay the piece of gasket materila on the transmissioin when you have it apart. Hold it in place and tap along the outer edges of the trans with a small hammer. This will imprint the shape of the trans into the gasket. Do the same with the hole for the input carrier bearing (you will need to enlarge it but at least it will be centered i the gasket. the take a small ball peen hammer and tap over the small holes. Don't cut the holes where the slide rails are as that is where most of the leakage comes from. Those need to be covered witht he gasket material.

Also when I reinsalled my trans I used cap screws and washers. the cap screws take a hex head internally, so you can stick it on the wrench and use a long socket to get the upper drivers side bolt in the bolt will stay located on the hex tool and allow you to start it using the extesion rather than further testing your duct tape. However it is alway s rewarding to weave a few new threads into your tapestry of profanity.

If the shift lever is anything like some of the foreign floor shifts, remove the top cover, and you will porbaly find it is retained by some sort of a pin through the rod. near the ball and socket deal.

Sounds like you are making some good progress.

[Reg Evans]

I have a floorjack that I can probably use to hold the trans. I still can'tfigure out how the shifter comes out. There is a plate on the top of the trans that the shifter goes thru that is bolted in. Should I unbolt that to get it out?

Why do you want to remove the shifter stick ?

[38plymouth]

Why do you want to remove the shifter stick ?

It doesn't seem like there will be enough room to slide the trans. back and then down with the shifter still in the trans.

[greg g]

here is a rendering with measurements for the gasket

[Reg Evans]

It doesn't seem like there will be enough room to slide the trans. back and then down with the shifter still in the trans.

On my 38 dodge the pilot shaft is only 9" long and there are 13" between the stick shift and the back edge of the floor pan opening leaving 4" to spare. Should be plenty of room if your Plymouth is like my Dodge.

[38plymouth]

On my 38 dodge the pilot shaft is only 9" long and there are 13" between the stick shift and the back edge of the floor pan opening leaving 4" to spare. Should be plenty of room if your Plymouth is like my Dodge.

I just thought of a second reason. I can't figure out how to get the throttle pedal off so the rubber floor mat is still in the car. I wrapped it up around the shifter and used a bungie cord to hold it out of the way. I can't slide the trans. back because it pokes through the rubber floormat. Got any ideas what holds the pedal on? A friend just told me to yank back on it and it will pop off at the top and then it should come out. I'm afraid to just pull on it if he's wrong.

[dezeldoc]

Look on the bottom of the peddle (outside the car) and see if their are 2 bolts holding it on. if not their may be a pin running through the peddle, pull it out and it should be bolted down. the shifter should come off by pushing down and turning on the ring around the shifter handle.

[Andydodge]

The accelerator pedal should be held onto the floor by 2 bolts that have round balls on the top that push into holes in the bottom of the pedal.......and the pedal just pulls off the round balls on the bottom.......btw have you got a service or workshop manual?.......if so it should have info/pics on trans/clutch repairs & removal........andyd

[38plymouth]

The accelerator pedal should be held onto the floor by 2 bolts that have round balls on the top that push into holes in the bottom of the pedal.......and the pedal just pulls off the round balls on the bottom.......btw have you got a service or workshop manual?.......if so it should have info/pics on trans/clutch repairs & removal........andyd

I have the service manual. It doesn't give all the steps to change the clutch.

[Reg Evans]

38 Plymouth'

Here's a trans gasket kit on eBay now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chrysler-Plymouth-L-6-Transmission-Gasket-Set-35-39_W0QQitemZ350156911599QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5186fa73ef&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Your gas pedal, if stock ,will have 3 rubber sockets on the back side and 3 round studs that plug into the gas pedal. The pedal should just pop off.

[38plymouth]

38 Plymouth'

Here's a trans gasket kit on eBay now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chrysler-Plymouth-L-6-Transmission-Gasket-Set-35-39_W0QQitemZ350156911599QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5186fa73ef&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Your gas pedal, if stock ,will have 3 rubber sockets on the back side and 3 round studs that plug into the gas pedal. The pedal should just pop off.

That looks like it, thank you. On the back side of the floor all you can see are what looked like rivets. Getting that off and removing the rubber flooring will give me much more room to work.

[38plymouth]

I'm ordering the trans. gaskets on ebay too. Thanks for the link.