Old Fluid/Gyro/Tiptoe voodoo Trannys

[Rustytoolss]

In my years of dealing with cars of many makes, all of them had modern automatic transmissions...TF 904, TF727, GM 350/400/700r4/200r4 etc you get the idea trannys built from the 60's to the 80's.

Now my question is about all of the VOODOO TRANSMISSIONS that were use in the 40's and 50's.

Things like Fluid Drive...Gyromatic...Tip Toe ....And what ever other evel thing that were being used during that peroid.

Just how good/bad were they...If I were to buy a car with one of these old monster transmissions, would you think of them to be relieable as to a TF904 ? or GM 350 ??

I have never driven a car with one of the older style transmissions...I guess that they just spook me. And maybe their not so bad....I don't have any idea.

My plan is to buy a 1947- 1952 Plymouth or Dodge.

1952 Plymouths had O.D. option on the manual/ not sure about Dodge

But Dodge seams to have had more of the semi/fluid/tip toe thingees/ maybe Plymouth did also, not sure??

Is one of these systems better than the other/ or you tell me , after all.

I know that you guys with your older classics will still be using the oriegnal trannys , are they spooky? Or just old and nothing to worry to much about?

My plan is to get an 47-52 with a Flathead6 / put dual carbs on it/ split manifolds/ and maybe a slight cam. I want to be able to drive 65 MPH without harming the engine ( hence OD) or harming the transmission...

In case you can not tell I have not had much to do with the older era drivelines.

After you stop rolling your eye..and saying is this guy for real. At one time you may have been just as confussed about these transmissions , just like me.

[greg g]

Stick with a plymouth with a standard 3 speed or with the OD if you can find one, swap in a rear end from a B Body mopar, and get a 230 engine from a Dodge Truck of 54 and later Plymouth. The semi auto matic are reliable but not performance oriented, all except the OD are 1 to 1 final. If yo keep them at 3000 RPM or less, you can go all day every day.

Dodge Fluid drive all, some with 3 speed, some with gyromatic (m6 semi auto) and OD not sold through Dodge.

Plymouth no fluid drive, and 3 speed , with OD i believe 52 and later. 53 only a wierd three speed auto sharing engine oil. 54 begins 230 engine, and powerflite 2 speed auto like power glide, precursor of torquefite. Torqueflite beginning in 56 w V8 powerflite with 6 til 57/8 then torqueflite.

Chrysler fluid drive with m6 till 54, a few FD with three speed standard.

Desoto, fluid drive with three speed dry clutch with threespeed (very few in early 40's)

ad tip toe (m6 semi auto)

The semi auto is a dual range two speed, two low and two high.

Fluid drive is the intermediary impeller driving stator which drives transmission, no torque multiplication untill 52/3 it is the same unit with what ever transmission is bolted behind it.

they are relatively efficient witih about a 96-98% energy out to energy in.

Fluid drive with three speed can be driven like an auto in thrid gear using only the gas pedal and clutch. Very liesurly momentum gain. or it can be driven like a standard if you so wish. Take a look at the imperial club website under repairs and look at the info there on transmissions.

are you more confused now? I know I am.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I think maybe he needs an old R-1 OD or maybe an M-3or 4 trans. But wait-there is the old reliable 3 speed powershift tranny too. The Hy-Drive 2 nd gear close ratio 3 speed probably would be a bad one for his 230 with a mild cam-probably would twist the torque multiplier right out of the bell housing.Hmmm... lots of choices!

As to the rear end-2 spider or 4 spider? Barrel case or open case. And on and on it goes with these old MoPars!!!

[James_Douglas]

Greg,

You are a little bit off when you say:

"Fluid drive is the intermediary impeller driving stator which drives transmission, no torque multiplication until 52/3 it is the same unit with what ever transmission is bolted behind it."

Fluid Drive was Chrysler's name for a "Fluid Coupling". The company that licensed it to Chrysler was called Glypol. A Fluid Coupling does NOT have a stator. It has a driver member and driven member. Fluid couplings are still used in industrial applications. Submarines during the WWII period used them also.

In the early 1950's Chrysler came out with something they called "Fluid-Torque" drive. This was Chrysler's version of a modern torque converter. The early units were sealed, but soon had heating issues. Then they used oil common with the engine and transmission. The last incarnation just shared the transmission oil like a modern automatic.

Remember that the fluid coupling's and the transmission's are separate things and have separate names in these years.

I run a fluid coupling with a 3-speed and a BW overdrive. I used to run a fluid coupling and and M-6 transmission. Looking back on my change from the M-6, if I was to do it again, I would have kept the M-6 and installed a Gear Vendors OD. Expensive yes, but with the time and money I spent on the 3-speed due to vendor issues I would have been better off.

Both the M-6 and 3-speed properly rebuilt are fine units and they will last a very long time. I happen to like the Fluid Couplings as they are 98% effective and in city traffic they save a lot of shifting and problems on the large hills here in San Francisco. Also, that 98% came in handy to compression stop the car on mountain roads around Yosemite last week.

By the way a modern automatic if it is not a "lock-up" style is only about 93% effective.

Best, James

PS. I have a bunch of stuff at the link below you can read up on this subject:

http://www.dacoglu.com/desotocd/4_Clutch_Fluid_Drive/

[lorandunn]

I was a little spooked by the prospect of having one of these in the Desoto I bought in January. Fresh fluid and it works like a champ. Lot's of burn-out torque in the low range

Downside would be the often misunderstood "click" it makes. Sometimes at slow speeds near the shifting rpm range, it wants to shift and I get a "purr" sound...no biggie. For instance, residential street, uphill driving very slow, crest a hill and the RPMs drop--wants to shift--kinda embarrassing to get the "click-purr-click" at the top of the hill when you don't even want to upshift.

It's a good strong tranny from my limited experience with it and all that I've read about about it. DEFINATELY not a racing tranny. If you want to really go throught the gears (and all that entails), then look for the 3Tree.

Jus' my opinion.

[Dave Bohn]

I have a '48 Dodge with a standard 3speed behind the fluid drive (w/o the semi automatic tranny). This is a common set-up on a 46-48 Dodge. It is GREAT for city stop/go driving - I keep the 3 speed in 2nd in traffic and just use the brake & accellerator, no clutch. Then when out of traffic and I want more power I can shift normally.

[Phil Martin]

I have a 50 dodge with dual range gyromatic. Has plenty of power taking off even with tires a little bigger. Not a racer but a ball to drive and reliable.