ECI braket and master installed

[realgonekatt]

So, I got the ECI braket and mustang master cylinder rig this week. The craftsmanship is exellent, the welds are absolutely gorgeous. My only complaints are the ports on the m/c are on the side facing the frame, which is a little tight. I will need either really tight bends or a banjo fitting (for the front port anyhow) and they shorted me one spacer, which I procured from ace hardware. Aside from that, very straightforward install. I would recomend cutting out some floorboard for access unless youre patient and limber:rolleyes: I also made this nifty aluminum floorboard, Hell ya aughta get somethin for all those tax dollars! I got a fella online for the kingpin bush reaming this week then the rest of the frontend and charlies brake kit go on and I gotta run all the lines yet but, gettin close, cant wait to go for a spin!

Might just make dixie fried this year!!!

[realgonekatt]

Almost forgot, I have 2 residual valves 10&2 pds. I do not have a proportioning valve yet. anyone else running discs/stock drums? What kinda prop valve yall using?

[dezeldoc]

I used an adjustable one from summit on mine with the 2lb in front and the 10lb in the rear, works good on the rack but have not driven it yet.

[daddyo23]

I've got the same setup. I have the residual valves on but didn't use the proportioning valve yet. Got over 1000 miles on it and it works fine. I don't know if I should put it on or not.

[littleman]

.Have the Mustang M/C also, and my ports face trans. Have disc/drum with 2/10 no adj. has been working fine.

AL

[Andydodge]

Can you guys give me some more info regarding the brake setup you are using?........what type of front & rear brakes?, the master cylinder is a late model(mustang?)type and do you use a power booster........if so where is it mounted?.......thanks andyd

[daddyo23]

Can you guys give me some more info regarding the brake setup you are using?........what type of front & rear brakes?, the master cylinder is a late model(mustang?)type and do you use a power booster........if so where is it mounted?.......thanks andyd

I put Charlie's (olddaddy) brackets on for the front and went with his suggestions for rotors (GM) and calipers (Volarie). Back is stock drums. I didn't go with a booster, didn't know about fitting it on the frame, but with the angle and length of the brake arm It stops no problem. I picked up a corvette caliper that would work where you have ports on each side for brake lines. ECI will not sell the bracket seperately. So, if anyone would like a dual m/c reasonable, pm me. Wayne P.

[realgonekatt]

You got a part number on that master littleman? maybe I can pick one up at Vatozone and return the one I have now:D

Im running charlies brake setup on the front as well, volare rotors, metric calipers. The guy at ECI sez that isnt a good combo with the little pistons and all. But, I think its fine and much better than stock.

[littleman]

Don't have pt#, mc came with bracket from ECI, they stated it was mustang late 80's(?) If you got this from ECI they must have sent the wrong mc, and should xchange for you.

When I was looking for a cap to make a power bleeder, it appeared that many ford models of that era, had the same size/configuration mc, but may have different bore sizes.

AL

[Andydodge]

So you guys are running discs at the front with the stock drum brakes on the stock diff and no brake booster?.....I would have thought that the discs needed a booster for efficient operation.......andyd

[martybose]

So you guys are running discs at the front with the stock drum brakes on the stock diff and no brake booster?.....I would have thought that the discs needed a booster for efficient operation.......andyd

Not really. The first disk brake car I owned was my 65 Mustang with the HP 271 horse 289; it came stock with front disk brakes and no booster, and stopped very well.

Marty

[clay diggs]

I am in Ball Ground, Georgia. "369 and 20". I would like to meet you and see your car and new master cylinder. You can call me at 870-362-2450. Clay Diggs

[TodFitch]

So you guys are running discs at the front with the stock drum brakes on the stock diff and no brake booster?.....I would have thought that the discs needed a booster for efficient operation.......andyd

I think it depends on a lot of factors including the contact area on the brakes, the relative diameters of the master and wheel cylinders, how heavy the car is, how much leg strength you are used to, etc. The older Mopar brakes were not self-energizing. And, as I understand it, modern are not self-energizing. So there might not be as much difference in pedal pressure on a Mopar as when swapping out a self-energizing Bendix drum system on a different brand with discs.

For someone raised on cars with PS, PB, etc., there might be some discomfort with the higher pedal force required.

I had a 82 Plymouth TC3 with front discs and non-power master cylinder. Stopped just fine. But that was a smaller car and I was raised on non-power brakes and so was used to the higher pedal forces of that kind of car.

[daddyo23]

So you guys are running discs at the front with the stock drum brakes on the stock diff and no brake booster?.....I would have thought that the discs needed a booster for efficient operation.......andyd

Like I mentioned, mine has been working fine without a booster. Now, if I could get the tail lights to light up right life would be good:rolleyes:

[realgonekatt]

Like I mentioned, mine has been working fine without a booster. Now, if I could get the tail lights to light up right life would be good:rolleyes:

Ive had heavier cars with no booster and been just fine. Its actually a nice "antilock" function:rolleyes:

Im thinking of using a mechanical lever style switch if I can locate one. The original looks to have seen better days.

[realgonekatt]

I am in Ball Ground, Georgia. "369 and 20". I would like to meet you and see your car and new master cylinder. You can call me at 870-362-2450. Clay Diggs

Good talkin with ya Clay, let me know if ya wanna unload that intake:cool:

[realgonekatt]

Like a lot of other guys on the forum' date=' I'm running my original MC with just the residual valves. No proportioning valve and no booster. I'm also using the ECI 11" disc brake setup on my P15 with stock original drum brakes on the rear. Has been on the car about 3 years now. Car stops far faster than the old drum brakes did, and they don't lock up on me when I hit the brake hard. Just like hitting the brakes in my modern vehicles. When I bought my kit from ECI, the guy told me I would not need a proportioning valve.

Other guys who have bought kits from other places like Old Charlie's system etc. are also using their original MC with just residual valves without problems.[/quote']

ECI sent me a diagram which had a prop valve in line. Which got me thinking, is the purpose to apply the rear brakes sooner, in relation to the front brakes?

[dezeldoc]

The prop valve allows you to cut the pressure to the rear brakes if they are locking up before the fronts. most of them will work without one, but if you need to cut the pressure and don't have one then you got to break it down and install one and rebleed the system again, for 28.00 it is cheap insurance. i would not run one with a stock master ,as when the front pads wear down the low fluid becomes an isssue, don't take but one time to suck air and loose the brakes, plus if you top it off when you go to change the pads the fluid will flow back to the master and overflow and makes a mess.

[dezeldoc]

Norm, the valves keeps the pressure rated on the valves(2# or 10#) on all the time, because the master is lower than the wheel cyl the fluid runs back to the master, with the pressure on them the pedal will not need to be pumped up. if you top off the master when the pads wear, it will be overfull and the extra fluid will need to go somewhere when you collapse the pistons back in to get the new pad in.

[old woolie]

Always open bleeders when pushing caliper pistons in. The old black fluid leaves the system and you have new clean fluid in your calipers after they are bled.

[Niel Hoback]

I am missing something here. Dezeldoc writes, "Norm, the valves keeps the pressure rated on the valves(2# or 10#) on all the time, because the master is lower than the wheel cyl the fluid runs back to the master." How is it possible for fluid to run downhill to the master cylinder without a leak allowing air into the wheel cylinder? Something has to replace the fluid in the wheel cylinder.

[Niel Hoback]

My point was I don't see how fluid can move from a sealed cylinder without something to replace it. If the fluid can actually travel downhill to anywhere else, the cylinder is either allowing air to enter, or its getting smaller. Am I to believe that gravity pulls the fluid down with such force that the pistons are retracting? I am really stuck here. Physics says nature abhors a vaccuum, yet losing fluid from a sealed container, the wheel cylinder, would cause just that.

[Niel Hoback]

Thanks Norm, I'm still looking. I have this hard German head thing going.

[dezeldoc]

Neil,Norm the valves hold the pressure on the line in turn keeping the piston in contact with the pads and rotor, as the fluid goes back it pulls the piston back into the caliper unless there is a air leak in witch case it will pull air. i don't have one on my P-15 and it will go to the floor and you have to pump it to stop. you may have a point on the valve golding back the pressure when replacinf the pads may have to open the bleeder to do it as mantioned above.

[realgonekatt]

Neil,Norm the valves hold the pressure on the line in turn keeping the piston in contact with the pads and rotor, as the fluid goes back it pulls the piston back into the caliper unless there is a air leak in witch case it will pull air. i don't have one on my P-15 and it will go to the floor and you have to pump it to stop. you may have a point on the valve golding back the pressure when replacinf the pads may have to open the bleeder to do it as mantioned above.

I recall an ASE test question on caliper pistons which asked what caused the piston to retract, and if I recall correctly, it is the seal itself that is responsible. So, that being the case, when said piston retracts, pressure is released from caliper assembly and does not cause a vacuum but rather just its normal balanced state. So no air should be pulled into the system as there is no vaccuum but rather a bit of pressure from the caliper toward the m/c.

I assume that the residual valves serve to keep the brakes in a semi activated state and therefore "ready for action" as well as serving to keep the reservoir from overflowing when the cap is removed.

I also agree with opening the bleeder when compressing pistons (i.e. replacing pads) on any car, due to the fact that deposits of foreign material like the "pepper" looking stuff from deteriorating brake lines tends to settle in the calipers, thus, opening the bleeder vanquishes afformentioned debris.

P.s. Hope this makes sense as ive tied on a few tonight hehe:D