front suspention

[Guest nativespuds]

I have a 1949 B1B that I am going to street rod. What have you all done/ seen for the front end suspention. I think the mustang II setup looks cool but it is twice what I paid for my rig. I am not crazy about the look of some of the diplomat style fromt ends. They usually look to wide for the frame. I have heard that some dakota stuff works similar to mustang II?? I am not oposed to either swapping the frame (dakota does it fit??) or putting discs on my straight axle or graft Daokta front end. But it appears as if the factory steering box will realy get in the way of a V8. Thanks for everyones in put.

[Guest nativespuds]

Have I struck a nerve of the restorers, by cutting one of these up?

[Guest SgtDrydock]

No offense intended, we just don't do much of that around here. You might find better answers over at www.customclassictrucks.com

Your biggest problem is that no one that I know of makes a specific aftermarket front end for these trucks. While restoration parts are quite easy to find, the rodders/customizers have concentrated on the Ford F/Chevy 3100s.

The B series also has rather unique front end geometry, and may be the best riding/steering of any of the trucks of that era. I'd go with a disk brake conversion on the existing axle myself. You might just want to save that for last.

Chrysler put its first generation Hemis in the C-series, which use the same steering arrangement as your B, so there should be a way for a V-8 to fit. Again though, My personal choice for a later model power plant would probably be a Mopar Slant Six.

[Tim Brown]

Native,

I think you've covered all the bases. I have a 49 B1 that I'm street rodding and haven't found much beside the MII clone for the front suspension. Because the Dodge is not as popular in the aftermarket world as Ford & Chevy there just is not much out there. Industrial Chassis in Phoenix does a Dakota front end but not for the Dodge. I've talked to them, they say the Dodge is not heavy enough plus the price would be greater than the MII.

T Brown

[Young Ed]

Tim on the car side has put dakota clips under a couple cars. He may have some tips for you guys. In the past year I sent 2 dakota frames to the junkyard but they were both 4x4 so probably not good for swapping. My only other tip I can tell you is I've read its pretty easy to put dodge ram brakes onto the dakota to avoid the odd 6bolt wheels.

[David Muma]

Check out the DPETCA site at http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/know/frontend/front.htm

[greg g]

There was a AMC Pacer front crossmember on e Bay. These are basically the same satup as the M II but are contained on a very stout bolt on crossmember. R & P. Disc Brakes shocks and springs all in one easy to deal with bundle.

MIght try to locate one at you local dismantlers is this is to far away.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AMC-Pacer-Complete-Disc-Brake-Front-Cross-Member_W0QQitemZ180077541503QQihZ008QQcategoryZ42609QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Guest Nile Limbaugh]

I have given this topic a lot of thought the last few years and have decided that, if I ever decide to do that sort of thing, I'll look for a chassis that, in size, matches my body. It seems to me that there's no logic in changing front suspension, rear suspension, motor mounts and on and on when it would be a lot simpler in the end to just fab some body mounts and maybe move the steering wheel and pedals, especially on a pickup where there ain't that much body to start with. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Guest Dave Claussen]

I have a 1949 B1B that I am going to street rod. What have you all done/ seen for the front end suspention. I think the mustang II setup looks cool but it is twice what I paid for my rig. I am not crazy about the look of some of the diplomat style front ends. They usually look to wide for the frame. I have heard that some dakota stuff works similar to mustang II?? I am not oposed to either swapping the frame (dakota does it fit??) or putting discs on my straight axle or graft Daokta front end. But it appears as if the factory steering box will realy get in the way of a V8. Thanks for everyones in put.

Check out Fatman Fabrications. They make a front end package specifically for Dodge trucks. All the geometry is figured out already. You can get it with power steering if you want, too. The down side is it is more expensive than a donor front clip from a Volare, Diplomat, or Dakota, but you get everything you need to make it work and they also have tech assistance if you get stuck somewhere along the way. Check out page 5 of their catalog under the Stage II kit. http://www.fatmanfab.com/

The hub to hub kit (page 4) for your year is the 4754 Dodge PU. This kit is made for years 47 thru 54.

I have a friend/mentor who is a serious hot rod builder who owns a NAPA store and he highly recommends Fatman Fabrications. He has used them on several of his builds and has had good results.

Sorry to sound like a commercial for Fatmans' but I have read a lot of stories about front end swaps and did a lot of research on the internet looking at a lot of the alternatives for front ends and these guys really seem to have it together. The guy I talked to on the phone when I ordered my kit was very knowledgeable about the products that they carry. He asked me questions about what I wanted to accomplish and what I already had to work with. After I got off the phone with him I felt like I had been dealing with a very professional person who knew what he was talking about and was committed to making sure I was satisfied with the product I had purchased. Nowadays that seems to be something that's missing in a lot of companies. Plus it was good to talk to a real live person who obviously had experience in the automotive world.

For someone who wants to avoid the proccess of removing a front end assembly from another vehicle and then transplanting it into another one, this is, in my opinion, an option that has it's advantages. Again, the initial cost is more, but you get all new parts that should last for a long time and you know everything will fit.

Just my 2 1/2 cents worth.

[Guest nativespuds]

I am not against running the stock front end. If they can be made tight. I will need to figure out a swap for discs. and possibly a different steering box.

I have a 318 and am auto out of a diplomat. I will run the rear end out of this car as well if it is decent. Any ideas on what kind of spindles work with the stock dodge axle. Any input on the diplomant rear end? Thanks Kevin

PS I ill have a flat six and tranni available soon.

[Jim Roach]

If your just looking to install a set of disc brakes, check with Charlie Achers @ Rustyhope. He has engineered a nice conversion kis that's not too expensive. He has detailed information on his web site. I'm in the process of building mine on the bench with an extra axle I have. So far everything fits nice. Good luck, Jim Roach

[Ken_Hart]

I am in the process of installing a fatman MII front suspension. Crossmember is tacked in and top hats should be tonight. I will be documenting the entire process.

[46mopar.]

Heres the swap I did http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=529

[Clinton_Reeser]

If you are looking into replacing the whole frame. A ramcharger 2wd works perfect. A friend of mine did it and he only had to fab up the mounts. When I was planning on street rodding mine I bought a dodge ram prospector van. I was going to subframe mine. The vans match up in width and have close to the same steering position. By the way I am know selling the van so if anyone needs parts for an 87 dodge ram van. The vans work good because they are already a unibody construction.

[Olddaddy]

I've installed Dakota and Volare clips under these trucks. It takes work and planning, not in that order, but it can be done well. Your truck will ride differently and handle differently, more like a "modern" vehicle. Keep in mind these clips are as old as 30 years with many miles on them, and most will require rebuild after installation. This route is usually more costly than a Fatman conversion or original rebuild.

I also make disc brake kits for the original Dodge truck spindles. Mine fit late 30s to late 50s and use a Volare rotor, 5 on 4 1/2" pattern. My kits include the caliper brackets, spacers, hardware and instructions with pictures. $225 including shipping to lower 48 addresses.

If you replace the king pins, drag link, and tie rod ends these steering setups work fine. I have the original steering box rebuilt for about $300 and you end up as good as factory new. It's still manual steering which at low speeds requires elbow grease. However, anything above 10 mph and steering effort is mild and manageable.

[Guest nativespuds]

Do you have any insight on V8's in a 1949 steering set ups? It looks like it might be right in the way of things? I am looking at either 318 or 360.

THANKS:rolleyes:

[anthonyb]

Here's a couple of pics of the poly 318 I put into my 52 B3FA. I had to fab up the 'mini-header' since the original center dump manifold would have gone right into the top of the steering box.

As you can see from the last pic, there is very little room between the starter and the steering box. In fact, I had to grind off a bit of the gearbox to make sure there was no contact.

And yes, changing the starter is major surgery.

[Guest John Clay]

I had a Fatman installed on my 1948 Truck last year. Since being completed I have over 1200 miles on the truck with no problems. Not a cheap way to go but sure rides and steers great. I have pictures but I think they are two large to post here. You can see the truck in the February issue of Goodguys Gazette

[Ken_Hart]

Well, this week, I entered the point of no return on my front. This weekend i will finish up (I hope) the parts install. This is the easiest MII install I have worked on. I was able to keep the factory stuff inplace during almost the whole build to ensure everything was centered up. Then just before final weld, I removed the factory susp

Here are a few shots

Start off finding center

This is the crossmember going in (the indent on the axle allows the right amount of room to hold the crossmember in place with a jack

Next was the tophats. Using a piece of angle Iron, I measure out the 38" that is required per instruction and mark the center between the two.. I mark the center of the cross member and find my locations.

using a cutting wheel, I notch the ends of the top hats to allow them to sit on the frame. double checking measurements and using a plum bob, and angle finder I verify a few times everything is align front, back and side to side..

I actually tack welded the crossmember and top hats in and then unbolted the front suspension..

Its was that easy, a few hrs

Progress has been slow due to being out of town but the cross member is fully welded as is the lower control arm support bracket.. Brake calipers, bracket, spindle and rotor are now painted. Assembly has begun and here is a progress shot.

[Guest Dave Claussen]

Ken, Are you going to use the original six cylinder motor or are you going with a V8? Just curious because I am looking forward to duplicating your exact process with a Fatman MII also. I am also curious as to whether you are leaving in the front crossmember. I did a test fit of my 360 Chrysler engine before I removed the cab and it appears that the front crossmember will not interfere with the motor installation. There are some other issues that will need to be addressed as I progress- steering linkage, motor mounts and firewall clearence for the valve covers and transmission.

You're looking good so far, keep those pictures coming!!

You might consider putting the complete install in the technical archives section.

[Rich Gengo]

I used the Fatman kit in me 51 with the ps. rack. It does drop the front end alot. Rides real nice but the only problem I ran into was I'm guessing because I used a big block, the springs and shocks they gave me were to weak. When I hit a sharp dip in the road my tires would bottom out on the inner cap corner. A good pair of gas shocks helped but I wound up putting a heaver set of springs from Eaton spring and that did the trick. They have a S. load of different spring for the Mustang 2 set up and know their stuff.

[Ken_Hart]

OK Dodge purist plug your ears, now your eyes.. are they plugged and closed..

I am installed a 454 chevy in it. I was going to put a 360 or new Hemi in it but found this motor for a can't refuse price and I am a chevy guy to the core, I know them and feel comfortable with them.

As for the front cross member I think it will work, may have to notch it behind the rad core support but initial measurements are looking. If anyone wants to see the entire build process I am posting step by step shots on my website.. I have talked with one of the classic truck mags and they have given me the green light to do a tech article on the install of the Fatman kit, so I am documenting it pretty good.

Here is the link to pictures.. As I make process I will post more shots. My goal is to have it on its own tires again by Sunday evening..(but that is optimistic, if not next weekend for sure)

http://public.fotki.com/boones/boones_rides_past/48_dodge_b1_woodie/

[Guest Dave Claussen]

Ken, If you can fit that 454 in yours, I should have no problem with my 360. Good job photo documenting all your progress. I'm sure others will benefit from your experience.

[Rich Gengo]

When I had my truck apart I had my friends 427 sitting on the stand and put it in there just for kicks because most of my friends are Chevy guys. It fit like a glove and would have saved me a lot of work but I was determined to keep it Mopar this time. I put a 400 Chevy in my 53 way way back then and all I did was make motor mt. brackets. Thats why people put Chevy motors in every thing. That designer did it right. The'll fit in anything. PS I didn't have to touch the front crossmember when I put the Mopar big block in. I had to use a smaller oil filter to clear the front and a rear sump oil pan to clear the Fatman crossmember.

[Ken_Hart]

Thought I would post and update on my progress. Did not get a chance to work on it last weekend but got some good progress today.

Since my last post, I have completed all the welding (including the lower A arm reinforcement support, C- notched for 'Rack and Pinion' clearance and upper Spring pocket reinforcement tabs) and have completed the install with the exception of a spring and shock. i am fabbing an adjustable rod to hold the front up until the motor is in and all weight is on the front (at that point I will installed the spring and trim as required to get the lower control arm level).

Here are a few more shots

first pic is the rack with the 4" adapter installed (parts come with the kit). This was a 5 min job...

Here is a pic with the rack temporarily installed as well as the spindles (its a 2" dropped unit)

This shot shows how close the rack boot comes to touching the frame (which at full up position just does) which required me to install a C notch (also included)

Here is a shot of the C-notch installed providing amble clearance for full suspension travel..

Here is the set up with the rotor and brake calipers installed waiting for the spring (or the temporary adjustable rod that I will be fabbing and installing to dial int the ride height while I build the rest of the truck)

Even got the wife to come out and help, she volunteered to pack the bearings (she saw it on TV a few weeks ago on 'Two guys garage" and said she could do it - so I let her give it a try, she did a great job and it got her involved....)

I hope these shots give others an insight into what it takes to install a Mustang II kit..