introduction and problem

[flattiefreak]

hello, my name is christian morgan. im 17 years old from mississippi. i know this site is for mostly 30s and 40s plymouth and dodges, but i need some help with my 230 flathead in my 58 plymouth belvedere. the engine was rebuild over the summer but im still having small problems fine tuning the engine. i am also a member over on the forward look web site and some guys including myself i have a problem with the choke and heat riser. the rebuilt carter carb runs extremely rich and makes the plugs black with soot and the exhaust black.. the automatic choke doesnt open up after the engine warms up

heres what has been done to the engine

all new gaskets, pistons, bearings, valves, rings, plugs, points, condenser, camshaft, lifters, oil pump, rebuilt carb. i have the plugs gapped at .35 and the points set at .20.

how do i cure this running rich problem? like i said, some guys think its the heat riser or just a faulty choke. i just want to see what you guys think about this.

thanks in advance

[Plymouthy Adams]

you have pretty much answered your own question..if the choke plate is not vertical to the the carb throat..it will induce fuel through the choke circuit..IF this is your condition when the engine is hot..it is appparent that the choke pull is in need of tweaking. Now one must look at the CAUSE..is the bimetal indexed too much on the rich side and limiting the travel toward full open..? What is preventing the plate from going vertical..

[Don Coatney]

Christian;

Welcome aboard. If your carburetor choke is not fully open once the engine is up to operating temperature that is a problem. Check and repair that first.

[greg g]

Another cosideration is the Air cleaner. What are you running? The stock oil bath or one of those aftermarket 4 inch hotrod style??? If its the little chrome one, many folks here have found they do not flow enough air, therefore leading to a rich mix. If you have the stock one, check out member

Normscoupe website. He has a detailed section for converting the oil bath housing to a modern paper filter element.

I have a 56 engine in my 46 coupe. The original set up for that was a single carter (I think BBS) carb. It had an automatic choke with the stove mounted on the carb. There is an adjustment to enrichen and lean the choke setting by loosening the three screws and rotating the exterior bakelite piece. This rotation gives the bimetalic spring either more or less movement. the spring controls the rage of motion of the choke butterfly. Also make sure the tube that goes freom the ehaust manifold to the carb is in good condition. If its leaking air it may not be feeding enough heat to the bimetallic spring. If its ot getting hot eough it won't pull the cholke completely open.

the third thing to look at is the linkage for the accelerator pump. It is adjustable and you might want to see where it is. It will allow you to lengthen or shorten the distance the pump moves. short = less gas squirting into the carb. Then check the itermediat power circuit in the carb. This is controlled by vacuum from the intake manifold. there is a series of slots cut into the carb to intake gasket. These slots must be lined up properly to feed vacuum to the control circuit. There is a spring which opens a needle valve during times of low vacuum providing additional fuel. If the vacuum is not present, to pull against the spring, this jet will be open all the time causing too rich a mixture.

So proper amount of air through the filter, fully opening choke plate, properly adjusted accelerator pump linkage, and a properly functioning power circuit will all contribute to a proper aif fuel mix.

Have you ever done a vaccum gauge reading while your engine is runing? Interpreting the gauge readings can go a long way to assesing your engines condition. If none of these things correct your problem we will move on to ignition. Because 99% of carburetor problems are electrical, and 99% of electrical problems are carburetor related........

[BobT-47P15]

Hi Christian........your flathead engine is right at home here. No matter it's

in a 58 model car. It's the same motor as the rest of the flattys.

There have been many discussions of carbureator problems here.....you

might try using the forum search for previous posts on the topic, also.

Bob

[flattiefreak]

hey guys, i running a 1 bbl carter carb with the paper air filter. i set the choke to fully open position and started the car. it ran very smooth. i rotated the dist. alittle bit clockwise and ran the car for a little while. there was smoke coming out of the tailpipe and carb at first, then it cleared up. what caused smoke to come out of the carb? it wasnt a lot of smoke coming out the top of the carb but it was noticable.

thanks

[Don Coatney]

As Greg mentioned my engine ran rich until I doubled up on my air cleaners.

[flattiefreak]

i let the car run for a while til it was warmed up. i just tried to start it again and it justs turns over and over. the choke is open and its getting fuel. what could be causing this?

[greg g]

Start by doing a static timing procedure on the car with the engine shut off.

This will assure that the base timing is met. Should be TDC or a few degrees advanced. Use the forum search (static timing)to find discussions on procedure. Thoe other thing I would do is get some new plugs. Fuel fouled plugs will not clear themselves till you have the proper running environment i the engine and are able to get it up to proper operating temps. Most of use are running AC 45 46 or 47's to good effect. Champions seem to be problematic. Auto lites work well but I don't recall the numbers.

[flattiefreak]

i just bought a setf autolite plugs a month ago. i also noticed that when i accererate it backfires really loud..

[Plymouthy Adams]

on your backfires..random or consistent on acceleration..is .035 the correct gap for your plug..was thinking about .028 or so...

[norrism1]

Distributor could be off a tooth when it was installed in intake manifold. Firing eather too soon or too late and causing the fouling of the plugs and backfire.

[Don Coatney]

Distributor could be off a tooth when it was installed in intake manifold. Firing eather too soon or too late and causing the fouling of the plugs and backfire.

The distributor on a Mopar flathead does not have "teeth". It has a tang that resembles a flathead screwdriver and can only be installed two ways. And I have never seen a distributor installed in an intake manifold.

[flattiefreak]

me and a friend just turned the dist. just a tad and its not backfiring anymore. should i still regap the plugs to .0?28?

[oldmopar]

me and a friend just turned the dist. just a tad and its not backfiring anymore. should i still regap the plugs to .0?28?

If they are resistor plugs they should br .035

[flattiefreak]

ok thanks alot guys. the car still stumbles on accelleration. how do i correct this proble. also, its hard to start if the engine was just cut off and still hot.

[greg g]

Withthe air cleaner off lookdown the air horn of the carb. work the throttle linkage, do you get a strong stream of fuel near the top of the carb?? If not chances are your accelerator pump needs some work. Sometimes it will get clogged with crud, and other times the leather bellows will dryout and not seal well to the side of the pump cylinder.

You need to remove the carb and take the pump piston out and soak it in oil.

Acc stumble if you have a good squirt could still be related to ignition timing, and you might also have have a intake manifold to block air leak. You can check that by spraying some wd 40 or light oil along the seam. With the engine ruig if the idle speed picks up that indicates a leak. Tightening the manifold nuts will usually take care of it. But so not overtighten.

The hot starting procedure is to give it 1/4 to 1/2 gas pedal, NO PUMPING, before cranking the engine. You might alos want to check your float level. If ti is too high it will allow flooding after shut off which leads to hard starting.

[flattiefreak]

i just went out to look at the carb to see if it is getting a good squirt of fuel and noticed a crack along the base of the carb. where can i get a new or good used carter 1 bbl carb?

[PatS....]

i just went out to look at the carb to see if it is getting a good squirt of fuel and noticed a crack along the base of the carb. where can i get a new or good used carter 1 bbl carb?

I have one you can have, email shipping info and it's yours. Might still have a kit as well, I'll have to hunt a bit.

[Normspeed]

Christian, it's no use, that 58 is shot. I'll take it off your hands and save you a trip to the junkyard.

[flattiefreak]

Christian, it's no use, that 58 is shot. I'll take it off your hands and save you a trip to the junkyard.

LOL ah yes, we have a comedian.. i am going to set the timing with a timing light... any tips?

[Grandadeo]

Christian, it's no use, that 58 is shot. I'll take it off your hands and save you a trip to the junkyard.

Watch out Christian, he probably wants to cut the fins off the '58 and weld them on the back of an old Dodge roadster body.

Lee

[Normspeed]

That's sick Grandadeo. Any photos?

Christian, I set my 53 flathead at 4 degrees before top dead center. I use a timing light, leave the distributor vac advance connected, and set the timing with the engine at a slow idle, 400-500 rpms if you have a tach. Do you have a shop manual yet? There are some good ones on ebay for not too much money.

[greg g]

Different carter carbs were used beginning in 53 I believe. Its a squat little goober to fit in with the new lower hood lines. I believe it is a BBS. not the B1B we are all used to.

http://www.carburetorfactory.com/expvw02.html

[flattiefreak]

yes, i do have a shop manual. it really doesnt say specifically how to advance iit or retard it. which way do i turn the dist for advance? i tried a vacuum test on the vacuum advance and it doesnt hold vacuum. i think i have an extra one that may be good.