Overdrive - Jumpin' in with both feet!

[woodie49]

Finally found a good OD tranny for my ’49 and wrestled it home (this thing is pretty heavy:eek: ). There are a few things I am wondering about:

The tranny came with cable. It looks identicle to the hood release on my ’49. A big chrome T-grip type handle. Is this the right cable?

Can someone show me a picture of where the cable mounts on their car? I assume it is to the right of the steering wheel, under the dash.

Kickdown switch – I assume there is a bracket for this under the pedal, probably not on my ’49 since it predates the Plymouth OD. I would like to see what the bracket looks like to decide if I can (or should) make one.

I need to acquire and mount a relay – can someone show me where the relay is located on a later model?

I plan to rebuild both the Tranny and the OD unit before I put them into my car. Probably take me through the Holidays (it may take me that long just to lift it), but I really want to do it right. I am a little daunted by the large number of specialty tools that seem to be required . I assume those of you who have rebuilt your tranny and OD have found some pretty good work-arounds. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I have rebuilt trannys before, but they were a lot newer, and I was a lot younger and stronger (did I mention how heavy this thing is?). Now I am older and weaker, but I have a lot more patience, (live and learn). Best of all, I think there is a lot of expertise on this forum, and I’ll probably be needing it.

I’ll get started once I figure out how to lift this onto my workbench….

[Young Ed]

Sounds like the correct cable. I've heard that the 49 hood release cable is the same thing. Some of them did say OD on the handle though. The kickdown switch mounts either on the carb or on the throttle linkage on top of the engine. Its kinda hard to make out but you can see the throttle version on this engine shot. Look below the return spring. The relay hangs on the firewall. On dads 50 he used a 12v relay for car security systems. Its designed to work as low as 7volts and works great in his car. Now the part I haven't quite figured out yet. Everyone seems set on rebuilding these. Both of the ones we have installed in running cars are just used units that were installed. Both have provied 1000s of trouble free miles. Why not try it first before tearing it apart?

[blueskies]

I did a few things differently than stock with my overdrive...

I mounted the relay under the dash, to keep the firewall clean and clutter free.

I mounted the cable handle (mine was a hood cable also) to the right of the steering wheel on the bottom edge of the dash.

And instead of mounting the kickdown switch to the throttle linkage, I mounted a switch to the end of the shifter. You can see it here, and why I like it this way better...

Pete

[BobT-47P15]

I believe originally there was a bracket that attached to the side of the

carbureator, that held the kickdown switch in an upside-down position,

so it could be pushed in by the gas pedal linkage.

The relay went on the firewall. The cable with T-handle goes under

the dash.....I think perhaps to right of the steering wheel. One thing

you need to watch is that the lockout cable (wire) inside the

housing is strong enough to push the lever on the tranny.

I bought a cable from the auto

parts store, and was informed that the wire was too weak.

There are several different ways to do the kickdown switch instead

of having it mounted in the original position. Some have mounted

it below the dash and push the button manually. Some have mounted

it on the floorboard next to the dimmer switch and step on it. Others

have (like blueskies) used a switch on the end of their gearshift

lever. Pete invented his own with a switch from Radio Shack. I bought

one with a button (aftermarket item) on ebay. normspeed has his own

toggle switch arrangement strapped to the top of his shift lever.

Or you can use a flip switch arrangement.

Mark in St Louis.......how did you wire yours up????

[claybill]

i dont like OD at all. despite the benefits...the free wheeling scares me. one slip and you are done!! I took mine out..will consider selling it?? anybody interested..?

claybill

[woodie49]

Even though it isn't "stock" since there was no OD option in 49, I am trying to make this as peiod correct as possible. My car has original wood, respray in the correct factory paint color, original interior, etc. I am resisting the urge to hotrod it. I like the mounting on the accelerator linkage. It seems pretty clean. If I go with a more manual set-up, I probably am better off not buying the kickdown switch at all, but going for a different set up.

I am not sure I understand the toggle switch arrangement. Wouldn't the toggle kill the current for firing more than momentarily? Although, I have seen Normspeed's thread on the forum and he knows what he is doing. I do also really like Blueskies arrangement.

Good question about rebuilding it. I suppose I could simply take it apart enough to inspect it and to replace the gaskets, etc. I don't want to put a leaker into the car. Once I am past the gaskets, it doesn't seem like a big step to do a rebuild. I do plan on driving the '49 between here and the Central Ca. Coast, about 250 mile each way, and I am putting a newly rebuilt P18 into the car (completely stock, but I might change that one day), so for reliability and piece of mind, I feel like rebuilding the trans is also a good idea. I don't care what car I am driving, if it is dead on the side of the road, it is just a piece of junk with a nice paint job. But, I have to admit that my rebuild may not inspire the piece of mind that I am looking for.

The car is running great with the old motor and three speed in it, but around Southern Cal., if you want to use the freeways, you really need to be able to cruise at about 70+ MPH, so I feel like that and the fact that I want to put some highway miles on really justifies an OD tranny. I could spend an uncomfortable day changing out the trannys to see how the OD works and sounds, but again, I do want to change all the gaskets at a minimum. What do you guys think?

I would really appreciate a better picture of the kickdown mounting on the accelerator linkage.

[Young Ed]

Here's the handle. Its the horizontal one. The vertical one is the Ebrake(its broken and should be horizontal also). When we installed the OD in dads 50 there were holes to mount the handle even though 50s never came with OD.

Here's the relay on the firewall. Has a fuse at the front corner of it. I dont seem to have any better pictures showing the kickdown. Its basically an L that is added onto the shift linkage so that when the throttle is wide open it pushed the switch. The carb mounted one is basically the same thing only it attaches to a couple of the screws that hold the carb together.

I'd install the rear seal on the output rebuild the ebrake and possibly pull the side cover to have a peak at the gears. Then try it.

[rustbucket]

Interesting that you should bring this up. I just came across a od trans. out of a 56(that's all that's known). If I were to get it, what are some of the issues I may face mating it to a 49 p18 block(no hydrive), and installing into my 50 dodge wayfarer business coupe? I am already moving the old trans. mount brace to the non hydrive position, should I hold off on moving it till I decide wether to swap or not, or are the od and non-od 3sp transmissions the same, mounting-wise?

Or do I just not have enough info on the od unit to answer anything?

[littleman]

wdy49,

OD is the way to go with these cars/engs in SC.

Only way you can run further than 2 exits on the frwy. Unless you want to put 60yr old engng to the test. In my HO, Blue skies, and Norm's thoughts regarding the cable/switch set up is the easiest and best way to go unless you are following originality. Remembering to short out the gov from the elec system. The cable handle and switch at easy accessable location would be up to you.

Don't forget about upgrading to front disc brakes.

Driving the freeways at the speeds of todays traffic were not in the thoughts of the early 50's.

Yeh, I know how great these brakes are, but the cost/work involved in the reliabity is well worth it. Ply built thier cars to last, but never thought we'd still be driving them around 50/60 yrs later.

I got my OD locally here in the SC area(rebuilt), and like most I've heard about on this site, have had no problems.

If you intend to open her up yourself, make sure you keep the OD guru's contacts handy.

Good luck

AL

[Normspeed]

Good luck with the OD. The one you want is an R-10 and it's marked that way on the unit. If you need advice we got it. I went through mine last year. Only the second trans I've gone through in about the last 40 yrs. It worked out great. I just drove my 53 from CA to NM, full load of cargo including a rollaway tool box in back, got 20-21 mpg.

There are some older threads on the forum with tons of info too. I agree with those who suggest you try using it before you rebuild. It may be in better shape than you think.

[woodie49]

Hi Normspeed,

Mine is an R10 (it has G-1 after the R10), I understand it came from a '53 Plymouth. it was shipped full of fluid or just not well drained, but there was a LOT of fluid in the box. The guy bagged it, packed it in styro peanuts and then somehow injected the box (I think when it was closed up) with more styrofoam stuff. It worked pretty well and survived the shipping really well, but a total pain to unpack, I was sawing through styrofoam for half an hour! And, as I say, lots of tranny in the box, outside the tranny. This stuff stinks! I still can't get the smell off my hands!

I don't know where it is leaking from, but would definately like to address that before I install. It will probably be a few months before my engine swap, so it may make sense to install and see how it runs and then address any issues during the swap. It wouldn't bother me not to have to rebuild it.

I am thinking maybe I should just replace the gaskets that are easily accessable and the rear mainshaft oil seal and give it a try. I would pull the gearshift housing to see what everything looks like. I am thinking of pulling the OD housing as well, but that starts to get into a lot of work, but I don't know how else to inspect the OD. How far do you think I should go before installing to see how it runs and sounds?

I have copied and assembled most the older threads on rebuilding these that I have found, and put them into a binder so I have a reference quide in addition to the manual. There are also a few good peices I have found on the WWW.

When you did your rebuild, did you have a problem finding the various tools called for, of just found suitable work-arounds?

Thanks,

Jim

[rustbucket]

Does your od trans. have the same mountings as a regular 3sp? I am really looking seriously at this now(who knows when I'll find another od localy). Is your block the 49 too? What is a fair price for one if it's usable?

[Young Ed]

Your question kind of got lost but here's some answers. The standard 3spd and OD 3spd are the same length. Your 56 if from a plymouth should bolt right up to a 49 plymouth block. The tricky part as you discovered are the various depths of bellhousings between dodge ply etc. It is also possible to keep the fluiddrive(which you are calling hydrive I think) and have an OD. If your business coupe is a short wheelbase model you will likely have to modify the driveshaft

[Normspeed]

Woodie, there is no seal on the front (input) shaft on these, so if the trans got tilted up during shipping, any gear oil would pour right out. Also, if the emergency brake drum at the back of the trans is off, the rear seal has nothing to mate up to and again, there would be a big oil leak if the crate was tipped.

I got by with a few home built workarounds. The nice snap ring pilers I bought are still in their package, unused.

Just my opinion, I would take off only the side cover, take a good look at the gears for broken or really badly worn teeth. Replace the side cover and give it a try. A lot of the problems with these units are only wiring related. There is a great troubleshooting procedure in the 46-54 Plymouth manual that requires almost no special tools at all.

[Jim Yergin]

If you do go forward with a rebuild, one thing that I found out when I did mine is that a 3/4 inch hardwood dowel will work to hold the bearings in place in the countershaft when installing it.

Jim Yergin

[woodie49]

This did not come with the wiring harness or the relay. The harness looks pretty simple to make, but I need a relay. There must be a lot of alternatives out there considering this trans was used in so many cars. I found a place that sells new ones for $126.00. Anyone have any more reasonably priced alternatives?

Think I'll crack the case this weekend to see what I am dealing with. I am liking more and more the "test it first' approach. Anything I should really plan on testing/replacing while I have this out and accessible? The E-brake is on the unit (though probably nicely lubricated). I assume I can adjust that up before installing. How do I see if it needs replacing (do they ever need replacing?).

[Young Ed]

If the ebrake got a bunch of gear oil on it it should be relined. pretty easy to do yourself. www.brakeplace.com will either reline it and send it back or sell you the supplies. See above for the relay we used. Its a modern 12v one available for under $10. Its just a black box so it doesn't even look that out of place.

[woodie49]

The BrakePlace is temporarily down, but I'll check later.

I like the $10 relay a lot better than the $126 alternative (12.6 times better?). Where would I find one and what am I actually looking for?

Thanks for the input.

[rustbucket]

So what is a fair price for an r10 if it's runnable?

[Young Ed]

That $10 relay should be available at any good parts store. The first one Dad bought about 15 years ago and its still working fine in his 50. A year or so ago we bought one for a guy in our region to use in his 50. No part #s still around but its for car alarms.

[James_Douglas]

I have been up to my butt in OD stuff for the last year. Send me a PM with a phjone number and I will call you to talke about issues to look at.

Best, James

[woodie49]

I did a few things differently than stock with my overdrive...

I mounted the relay under the dash, to keep the firewall clean and clutter free.

I mounted the cable handle (mine was a hood cable also) to the right of the steering wheel on the bottom edge of the dash.

And instead of mounting the kickdown switch to the throttle linkage, I mounted a switch to the end of the shifter. You can see it here, and why I like it this way better...

Pete

Pete

Your site is one that I keep coming back to for great info on so many aspects of these great old cars! Really an interesting site and a great service. Thanks so much.

If I understand it, what you did was eliminate the ignition interupt side of the kickdown switch and got a small microswitch, mounted in you shifter, to break the control circuit so, once activated, letting off the gas or pushing in the clutch will kick down the unit to regular drive. So you no longer use the Plymouth kickdown switch at all. You never restored the ignition interupt function, right?

The more I think about this, the more I like it. You avoid the stress on the tranny of kicking down under hard acceleration and certainly have a lot more flexibility in shifting. I assume everything else is wired up the same? Since I don't have the wiriing harness, what guage wire should I use to build one?

[woodie49]

I have been up to my butt in OD stuff for the last year. Send me a PM with a phjone number and I will call you to talke about issues to look at.

Best, James

James,

Glad for the help. Sending you a PM in a couple minutes.

[blueskies]

If I understand it, what you did was eliminate the ignition interupt side of the kickdown switch and got a small microswitch, mounted in you shifter, to break the control circuit so, once activated, letting off the gas or pushing in the clutch will kick down the unit to regular drive. So you no longer use the Plymouth kickdown switch at all. You never restored the ignition interupt function, right?

Glad the info on my site is of use...

Your understanding is correct... I eliminated the ignition interupt and the factory kickdown switch all together. The rest of the wiring is per the factory wiring diagram.

The small switch I used in the shifter is normally open, and the factory kickdown switch is normally closed, so I used a relay to reverse the operation of the switch.

I like it this way because I can kick down the transmission without full throttle, and I can split shift the transmission using five forward speeds. Works great.

Pete

[knuckleharley]

..It is also possible to keep the fluiddrive(which you are calling hydrive I think) and have an OD.

Huh? How is this possible?