timkingsbury

Lol.. you beat me too it and your conversion to litres is good enough for the girls I dance with ! And think 41/53dodges is correct and it is like a c160. They definitely have reused the C number.. but I think the C175 was not reused.. The old one was a C140 C150 and c160 I think. I could be wrong.. Its the same generation as the Cummins triple nickel v8. I seem to remember that that engine is close to 1500 pounds though.. But its out so maybe easy to weigh.

Ok - I thought you were still trying to identify it. I saw the c175 and at the end the 6bt. Ok if it is a c175 then it is an 8.3 litre engine. It is substantially bigger and heavier than the truck engines which are already a quite a weight. The c175 was built for a number of years and is in a lot of different applications by the look of it. From off road things that drive, to generators. Here is a link to a good reference starting point. http://www.emacsz.com/catalogue/cummins-diesel-engine.htm I think in the 8.3 litre size,not sure off the top of my head the model number, was in large highway tractors (as in highway trucks) but your talking about something with 12,000 - 20,000 lb front axles. That engine sounds like a great one you might want to get, and put it in an offroad application or generator or something, or get it peddle it and use the proceeds to look for a one of the many Cummins for road use. Again here is a good starting reference point. http://www.emacsz.com/catalogue/cummins-diesel-engine-for-vehicle.htm Tim

So what is it that you would like to know ? You have the 1st gen body style and less HP in the cummins, then it has increased over time. I have 3 Dodge trucks with Cummins Diesels in them. The last with is a 1998 is still a 12 valve, a pump you can play without all the electronics and makes for easier conversions. The you hit 24 valve engines and you can do some mods to get those engines to work without the electronics. I am of course talking the 6 cylinder engines. I also see guys taking the 4 cylinder cummins that were in some cube vans with automatics and use them as well. There are a couple of routes you can take. Take your older truck and start upgrading it to handle the engine and transmission. That route has a few challenges including brakes and the weight of the engine does tend to take its toll on the front end. The second route is you take the cab and box off of a newer Dodge and put an older truck body on the newer truck. The 1st one I did I took the old truck and new drive train approach, and the last 1 I did, I took a 1998 4wd with a 5 speed standard and put on the older body and a love box on it. My 3rd cummins is as it came from Dodge... so its new new style. I would like to do a 4wd and put a pre-1968 round cab powerwagon on it to use it as a pulling truck to haul our dragster with. I just haven't found the right truck for it. In my part of the woods, I keep my eyes open for a Dodge (with a cummins) that has been in an accident with sheet metal only damage. I usually see them after the winter with insurance companies have written them off and put them up for auction. There are some issues with branded titles (ownerships) from state to state and province to province I realize. I do know in Ontario, the 1st one I did the 1937 Fargo ownership/Title is what I used, however the next one I was not technically allowed to do that. In other places I am told I would have been able to use the older title. Happy to talk to you further if your interested. Tim

Lot I think your catching on there Ralph !

Sharp Speed and Power Equipment - Al Sharp First up a vintage decal from Sharp Speed and Power Equipment. Yes this is the Al Sharp who under the banner "Sharp Engineering" Sponsored (and built the Hemi Heads) for the famous - "Mooneyham & Sharp 554 1934 Coupe" that can today be found be found at Don "Big Daddy" Garlits Drag Racing Museum oh and of course of the famous Hot Wheels collection ! It seems Al Sharp acquired the Fenton intake patterns at a bankruptcy auction from Aaron Fenton. He used the Fenton intake patterns to cast the Von Esser, Jet, Ralph's muffler Shop, Don Cherry and others. Among those patterns he casted Plymouth/Dodge small blog intake under his own name "Sharp" and for Douglas Speed Shop (D & S on those intakes being Douglas and Sharp) Al Sharp had worked for a pattern maker before he joined the Navy and spent World War 2 in the Navy. When he got out he founded SP pattern service. I am lead to believe SP stood for Sharp and Pilkington (Gordon Pilkington). I believe the SP tops were designed for the Stromberg 97 carbs by the SP pattern service. So the reason why Sharp Intakes for the flathead Mopars perform like the Fentons, seems to be because they are the exact same except for the name/markings ! What I didn't know until very recently was after Al Sharp passed away in the fall of 2004, the Sharp brand continued and on July 26, 2013 the "Sharp Speed and Power Equipment" Brand has been sold to H & H Flatheads/Navarro Racing Equipment. Here is a picture of Al Sharp holding a flathead intake, the above aforementioned drag racing coupe. Here are a few shots of a Sharp intake for a 23 1/2" USA small block courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/3672-deathbound/ I have recently spoken to a member who has a D&S branded intake and it was he who jogged my memory about Sharp intakes as I had posted a picture of Al last year in response to another thread. While it is not really this thread/concept, it may be a good idea to do a piece or thread on the Legend Al Sharp and his partner and Racing Legend Gene Mooneyham. Gene a member of the NHRA hall of fame passed away January 2006, only a few months after Al Sharp. But to Sharp or D&S intakes, heads, instructions, advertisement or other documentation please bring it forward! Tim Update: Here are some pictures from http://p15-d24.com/user/5770-61farnham/ of his D & S intake and right below I will put the Fenton so you can see just how similar they are ! Amazing The Fenton -

Ellis - Made intakes for Chrysler Corporation for the Dodge 331, 377 and 413 ci "super big" block truck engine. They also made aftermarket intakes for both the USA small block and the Canadian big block 6 cylinder engines. This intake is believed to be off a feb 1950 built 377 ci engine which was 4" bore and 5" stroke producing 154 hp at 3000rpm and 330 lbs of torque, 7 main bearing crank. Here is an Ellis intake courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/296-ralph-d25cpe/ A nice example of the Canadian 25 1/2" big block - marked "Ellis Dual Power Manifolds" on the side and "Dodge" "2 ton" "1 1/2 ton" on the intake runners Here is another nice example of the Canadian 25 1/2" Big Block - " Dual-Power" intake with Carbs Photo's courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/4694-scotia-steve/ Attached is a picture of an Ellis dual crab intake for a 23 1/2" USA small block Advertisement and Instruction sheets: also to follow. I think I have some filed somewhere. Thickson - I believe I have seen 3 different Thickson intakes over the years. This was the one I had a picture of. If you look close there are tabs for the linkage on the intake of this example. It looks like a Tattersfield influenced intake and I do not know who made which 1st although given it is the later Tattersfield that had the linkage tabs, I am thinking the Thickson came after the Tattersfield, but that is just a guess. So this one is a work in progress. McGurk - More known for Chev intakes, however they did make them for the USA small blocks I am told. So this one is a work in progress. * Note: this is the 5th installment on intakes and the 6th with be on Sharp. After that I can't help thinking there may be others I am not thinking of. So if you have any more examples instruction sheets, advertisement, let me know and I will continue the series. As mentioned in the 1st installment my hope is to gather up the information and instruction sheets, maybe any technical stuff that came with them, examples of linkage etc so that eventually it can be moved to the forums technical information section.

All of these intakes are still being manufactured or substantial amounts of new product still exists. Offenhauser - still made, available at many suppliers, even the big chains like Summit Racing, and they also sell "connection kits" with linkage. These dual carb intakes are for the 201, 217 and 230 USA small block engines. http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ofy-2691/applications Fenton - still readily available although I did not see them on the big chains. These dual carb intakes are for the 201, 217 and 230 USA small block engines and a couple of new ones I saw for sale had linkage, and instruction sheets included. Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/u...5770-61farnham/ A Fenton intake pictured with a home made dual exhaust manifold A Fenton Aluminum Head Fenton Head Details as well as Fenton Header Instruction Pages I will apologize right now as I had these along with a bunch of stuff sent to me and I have lost the note as to whom they came from. please drop me a note so I can edit in the credit for the find ! Tim * Fenton Patterns were sold in a Bankruptcy auction to Al Sharp, so see part 6 which is the Sharp Blog Piece Edgy Speed Shop Dual carb intake for Dodge/Plymouth 201,218 & 230 USA small block engines. His casting mounts two, 3 bolt carburetor's such as Stromberg 97's. He also makes Heads for the small and big block and I will attach a picture in passing. Adapter can be found on ebay to change the two barrel mounts to Carter Ball and Ball carbs as well. Earl makes his Cast Finned Aluminum cylinder head for both small blocks (Plymouth/Dodge 23 1/2") and big blocks - Canadian 25 1/2" engines * If you have the instruction sheets for anyone these let me know and I will be happy to post them. In 2018 Earl Eggerton's Edgy products were moved over to the Montana Doge Boys under the banner of Montana Vintage Speed. On facebook https://www.facebook.com/MontanaVintageSpeed/ and their website http://www.moparmontana.com/?fbclid=IwAR2E9dW5dTjxW0rtycG2A_6hvlAl11k8YVuqPL5UsvvAhCtrAAsMzKCJXf4 They have taken things to the next level and beyond, with a 2nd Generation Head for both the 23 1/2" and the 25 1/2" mopar flatheads Intake wise that has not been a focus to date but is certainly on the horizon as Pedro and the other Montana Dodge boys look to take the Edgy intake to another level. Dont count out something in tandem with the AoK boys in the future!

3rd part in the series, its for me the Grand Daddy of them all, straight from the Chrysler Engine Factory in Windsor Ontario Canada, factory Dual Carb intake, and factory Dual exhaust which were options on Dodge Trucks. Most believe they were only on 265 ci engines, however that is incorrect. They were available through a factory order on either the 250 or 265 ci motors, and at Dodge truck dealers, they would happily put them on any new truck you wished to put them on. There is a local farmer who had a 1953 Fargo 1 ton pickup truck with a 238 ci motor, the dual carb and intake on it and always said he bought it right from Wellington Motors in Guelph Ontario Canada. After his death, his family found the original bill of sale for the truck and there on the bill of sale from the dealership was listed the Dual Carb and Dual Exhaust option, although it was not given an itemized price. I believe the reason he did that was he had purchased a heavier Fargo truck with a 265 ci motor for hauling livestock the year prior and when he bought the pickup at the dealership he asked for the same setup as he had on his truck. That is a bit of speculation on my part, however I did have the chance to ask him on a couple of occasions why he had the dual carbs and he would just smile and not really give me an answer. For this intake and exhaust I can provide more details as required as the setup is clearly in several Chrysler Manuals that we have, Tim Here are 3 pictures of a Factory 1952 Dodge Truck Dual Carb Intake and Exhaust that came off of a 4 ton Truck with a 265 ci motor Here is the Factory "Chryco" Parts Manual and the page illustrating the explosion view of the Dual Carb Intake and Exhaust Below Some Vintage Speed Advertisement and Articles - 1st up I belief is a page from the 1953 Bell Auto Parts catalog Show a Edmunds finned high compression head for Chrysler, DeSoto, DeSoto and Plymouth....$54 Courtesy of "Old Mopar fan, Don" who can be found over on HAMB http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/members/41-c28.10395/ 1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Front Cover 1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Aftermarket Mopar page 1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Back Cover Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/7710-charleyd/ who scored a copy of the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine, where the article which gives a big thumbs up to the Nicson intake and I will put it up under that intake thread as well as here. Here is the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine on Hopping up the Plymouth with some really positive endorsement of Nicson

In creating this spotters guide for Flathead Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Desoto, Fargo intakes my hope was to show related information, pictures of various intakes, and attach any technical information and perhaps vintage ads for them. I am starting it here in hopes of putting something together with the help of many members and then maybe move it to the technical archives. . Why do it here ? Only because I or someone can edit and compile. #2 Nicson Engineering Nicson Engineering was we believe the very 1st aftermarket maker of dual carb intakes for the Plymouth and Dodge 23 1/2" motors. The 1st generation with several markings including the "Volumetric", and "Plymouth Dodge Cars" as well as "Plymouth dual Dodge" was for the earlier smaller 2 bolt Carter ball and ball carbs. The one pictured below was never mounted on an engine and was the only one I have ever seen. Here is that Nicson intake, now cleaned up, mounted with 1938 Plymouth carbs, nice new stainless linkage all done by George Asche - AoK racing and heading out to be a new piece of jewelry for a 1938 p6 Plymouth ! The 2nd generation intake Nicson made was for the Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge truck 25 1/2" block as well as and intake for the "Super Big Block" engines up to and including the 377 and 413 ci engine. The 3rd generation intake was for the for the Plymouth and Dodge 23 1/2" motors taking the bigger Carter ball and ball carbs. Next the picture of a Tattersfield and a Nicson dual carb Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) Here is the Tattersfield circa 1950 I have also seen a Nicson triple made as a "Chrysler Special" for the 25 1/2" block engines, but never took a picture of it. That was back in the early 70's, well before the camera on every cell phone era and have not seen one since. Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/7710-charleyd/ who scored a copy of the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine, where the article which gives a big thumbs up to the Nicson intake and I will put it up under that intake thread as well as here. Here is the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine on Hopping up the Plymouth with some really positive endorsement of Nicson #2 The Coolest Funky looking intake - Tattersfield Power Equipment This intake came only in small block form for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1.2" flathead) It came in 2 different generations. The 1st pictured with the Nicson intake and the 2nd generation pictured with carbs on it. Notice the linkage tabs on the 2nd generation intake. Courtesy of : http://p15-d24.com/user/7408-hellyeah/ A later Tattersfield intake / exhaust combo with linkage. Note the intake has linkage tabs like Edmunds did on his later dual intake manifolds. As well a picture of a Tatterfield Aluminum head - all for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) & a letter from Tattersfield on their performance equipment. then Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/user/5770-61farnham/ The Tattersfield instruction page with linkage illustration and picture of the Tattersfield intake with carb on it Some earlier Tatterfield literature, followed by the later which referenced Mopar in the later 1940s \ Notice the reference to the Electric and Carburetor Engineering Company. This is a picture of the inside of the Electric and Carburetor Engineering Company from a 1951 (courtesy of a P15d24 Member 50Plymouth) . Ive seen it referenced elsewhere as a Calendar shot from 1942 although a couple of items in that picture would date it much later In the display end of the counter is what I believe to be the the 2nd generation Chrysler six cylinder intake (top intake)

if you have info to add here, please do. If it wont let you add a picture, send it to me in a PM and I will add it and provide credit for the person sending it to me.

Great post, although your likely right. I have looked around for options. We could start a new thread/topic here, although it likely belongs in the technical archives. It would be nice to edit it, so I thought I could start with it on my blog and then get an administrator to move it to the technical archives, but it doesn't seem that those who might comment to the starting blog entry cant post pictures. So I am not 100% sure. It would be definitely nice to have a spot to put up stuff on intakes, linkage etc. Maybe I will start a blog entry and maybe an admin can provide guidance.. Hey - TodFitch since your on this thread already.. Suggestions ?

In creating this spotters guide for Flathead Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Desoto, Fargo intakes my hope was to show related information, pictures of various intakes, and attach any technical information and perhaps vintage ads for them. I am starting it here in hopes of putting something together with the help of many members and then maybe move it to the technical archives. If there is lots of information coming forward, then maybe it becomes a given thread for each different intake For now will do it as a grouping. Why do it here ? Only because I or someone can edit and compile. So 1st up Eddy Edmunds stuff - in my mind the Godfather of custom Mopar flathead intakes.. Attached the picture of 3 of the Edmunds intakes. the dual carb Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge Truck (25 1/2" flathead) and the Edmunds triple for the Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge Truck (25 1/2" flathead) Courtesy of : http://p15-d24.com/user/296-ralph-d25cpe/ The Edmunds instruction manual pages with Linkage Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/u...5770-61farnham/ A 1st generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) A 3rd generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/6715-dwest999/ Here is a 2nd generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) with integrated water and for two barrel carbs. This is the Edmunds "Pancake" Intake

There have been 3 or 4 turbo charged slant six engines at Chrysler Carlisle over the years. There were two of them last year. Not sure why he would want to put a turbo way back there, but I best go get the Car Craft Mag and give it a read. We have had a turbo charger on a flathead and that is a story for another time. The one HellYeah has posted a picture of almost looks like it may have an intercooler to it. That would definitely be cool to learn more on the build details. The turbo we had on a 4 ton truck was very simple compared to what I see in that picture and I suspect the Norway version is a better version ! My wife and I were over in Norway a couple of years back in Sarpsborg to watch a friend who was playing Pro Hockey over there. Wished I had ran into that car, although likely wasn't the car show season. Tim https://store.carlisleevents.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=26

That is a great reference tool for sure. Tattersfield made at least 2 and I believe 3 different intakes for the mopar flatheads. The one that started the thread has the tabs and by HellYeah post you can pretty much see how it works for that 1, so your post fills in the linkage required for the other and I believe the 3rd intake they made has the linkage very similar to the illustration you posted with the exception the linkage runs on the opposite side. Im just wondering if it wouldn't be helpful to have an intake and linkage thread/section in the technical forum. Tim

Topic Moved to this thread/blog topic http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-88-the-rough-field-spotters-guide-for-mopar-overdrives/

Well there it was, the 1st car I ever bought, a 1970 Dodge Challenger... I knew it was a major project, but I was thinking - "well I can get parts to fix this over at the scrap yard at no extra cost and the body looks good." So I was quite pleased with things. I was off for home and Grampa who I thought was heading to the other barn to feed the livestock was busy jacking the car up and removing the wheels, just after I left. He was also obviously on the phone with Grampa Bolton. Home I arrived and my Dad was still at work as was Mom. I remember clearly thinking I best get to Dad first, so I got on my Motorcycle and headed to Dad's shop. I rolled in and walked into the shop where Dad was busy on a project for the Guelph Police, building what was known as Valiant pursuit package. It was a factory 360 police package. Dad and a couple of his team were taking the engine and transmission to the next level.. It wasn't unusual for me to arrive at the shop, although normally it would be after school. Dad was working the 4 to 12 shift so it was a little unusual for me to be at the shop that late in the day. So it wasn't long before Dad said, to me "so what up".. Well Dad, I bought a new car and I remember like it was yesterday his reply - "a new car, you don't say".. I went on to explain that it wasn't exactly new, it was just new to me and that it was really a used car and it had some mechanical issues.. Well it wasn't long before he knew it was a 1970 Dodge Challenger and like every Dad likely would do he said, do you have any idea what the insurance will be on this car. Woops.. well I did think about it, but no I hadn't checked that. Then came how much did you pay for this car and how did you pay for it. I learned many years earlier, you may as well spill the beans, so I told him the whole story, right down to the loan manager who turned me down. The only good news is Dad couldn't stand the guy either, and Dad was about as impressed with the Loans managers lecture as I was. But surprisingly I didn't get a lecture about it was too expensive and he did think it was a great idea to get any parts we could get from cousins John for the car for free, but as he pointed out there are a lot of things on that car that likely wont be found in the wrecking yard. Oh and he would have preferred it was a Plymouth Cuda ! Lol Dad did also suggest I not break the news to Mom until he was home. That was good advise and for the next few days I was chewing off my finger nails, and trying to think if I would ever get to drive the car. Not only was Dad likely right and the parts I would need likely wouldn't be at the wrecking yard, despite it being the biggest yard for likely 100 miles, but the insurance was likely going to be out of reach. The day after Dad knew, I did what every young guy would do in my circumstances.....skipped school and headed to the farm to work on the car... lol what did you think I would do? I drove down to the farm, parked the motorcycle and headed for the barn. About 1/2 way down to the barn I noticed the lights were on in the barn. I remember thinking that is odd. Well surprise surprise, as I walked in the man door there was Grandpa hard at work on the car. He had the tires off the brakes all apart, the drive shaft out, the rear gear set out. Wow.. Grampa just looked up and said, well you want to go get on some farm cloths or you going to ruin those ones. Being the only grandson, I had my own bedroom in the farm house. It was my Dads old bedroom and I had cloths there so when I was working somewhere on the farm, I had cloths that if they got ripped or greasy it wouldn't be a problem. So I got changed and when down to the barn for the update. Grampa who was not a licenced mechanic likely could rebuild anything and definitely repair a car to not only have it pass the mechanical inspection, but usually had them repaired to the condition it would have come from the factory in or better. Its seemed the brakes were in terrible shape, brake cylinders were leaking lining was pretty much gone and when he was checking the rear end oil it smelled burnt so he tore it down. I remember thinking oh boy this car has been run hard and put away wet and were going to wind up rebuilding it completely. So we worked away and come lunch I asked Grampa if he checked the engine. "Nope, that is for you and your Dad." Early in the afternoon we were off to get parts. I assumed we were heading to wrecking yard, but noper... we were off to Wellington Motors where we got 3 or 4 boxes of parts. I mentioned Grampa that I didn't have any money yet to pay for the parts and he laughed. That is ok, I will add it to your tab. As it turned out Jean McLean had dropped of $1500 so the car was really only $3000, but I wouldn't find that out, until well after I had broke the news to Mom that I had paid $4500 for a car that was torn all apart and the engine didn't even run. Grampa Kingsbury had phoned up to Grampa Bolton and I am not quite sure who he called or what took place, but what I know is we sure got a heck of a deal for parts. By supper we had all the brakes completed, tie rod ends replaced and grandfather had the rear end gear up into his machine shop in the driving shed and I am not sure what he did to it, but I do know it was back in the rear end casing, the axles back in and the u-joints replaced. I called home and left a message with my sister that I was working at the farm so I would have supper there. That was not an unusual occurrence. Over supper we talked about what all the car needed and he said - "well when your at school tomorrow I will head to John's and see about tires, and we need a rim as the front rim was bent" and he had a list of other parts he would try and find. The next day, you know I headed to school... lol.. are you nuts, I was at the farm by 7am.. But Grampa was up at 430am had the chores done, had finished breakfast and he was loading up the truck. He smiled when I pulled in as I remembered , and off to Johns we went. It would be the 1st of dozens of trips to the yard. We couldn't find the rim that day and a few other things, but Grampa left a list of things for John to keep his eyes open for. Surprisingly we found brand new tires that had been full sized spares that were in the trunks of cars. That got brand new tires for the front of the car and Grampa had called Gampa Bolton about back tires. In the afternoon Grampa Bolton arrived with a brand new set of firestones for the back of the car, plus another pair on rims for spares. I had pulled out the seats and pulled out the carpet and was over with a garden hose and a bucket of soapy water cleaning the carpet and seats. As it turned out they were in good shape, just incredibly dirty. By supper, the carpet was hanging by a swing beam in the barn dripping water, and the two Grampas had the car up in the air using the rope system for the hay wagon in the barn. Sort of a red neck car list I guess. I really do wish I had taken a picture because it was hard to believe. Once it was up In the air they had put stands that Grampa had welded up and put under all 4 corners and they were pulling out the transmission. When it was on the ground and remember it didn't run, Grandfather Bolton wasn't happy with the way it shifted.. So out it came. It was a 4 speed manual transmission. Grandpa Kingsbury loaded into the front of Grampa Bolton's car for him to take home.. lol.. yes it really was the front, as Grandpa Bolton was driving a vw and it was rear engine with a trunk in the front. About a week later the transmission came back along with a new clutch and rebuilt or built pressure plate that definitely had some factory unauthorized modifications. To be honest I don't remember and didn't write down exactly what he had done, although I am positive Grampa would have given me a very detailed description of what he had done. So a week and a half had gone by and still Mom didn't know about the car. Dad had the day off and down to the farm we went.. When we arrived, into the house we went to see Gramma and Grampa and Dad announced we were down to see the new car. Grampa pipes up and said, well its down in the barn in the same spot as when John dropped it off. The way he said it, I remember thinking he is suggesting the car is exactly as it came, but I knew there has been a ton of work done. I am pretty sure Grampa was lessening the blow given what I had paid for a ridden hard and used often sports car. Down to the barn we went, Grampa with us and Gramma who never ever was down to the barn, was right behind us. She too was coming to see her only Grandsons new car. So in we went and Dad started to look it over.. He slide under the car and constantly was mumbling... "ah hah".. we still hadn't opened the hood and he says, so is that is the way you bought it. I looked at Grampa and then at Dad and said, well Grandpa Kingsbury and Bolton may have helped work on it a bit. I had forgotten the tranny was still out of the car and was over to one side of the barn in the tack room. Dad then says, so next question. do I need to check out the brakes, rear end, and front end on this car. Grampa says, of course you do, I am not a mechanic and Earl the Squirrel (my grampa Bolton) doesn't have a mechanics licence so who knows what we have screwed up. Dad just laughed and inquired who did the brakes.. Grampa fessed up and told him what all he had done. Dad looks at me and said something like, "well its a good thing your grandfathers have your back." So up went the hood finally and Dad took off the rad cap, then pulled the dip stick, shook his head and said, well Son, we have some work ahead.. This engine is smoked.. There is antifreeze in the pan, the 1 cast iron header was visibly cracked so it has been really hot and I will bet the head gasket blew on this head. There was also oil in the radiator so the engine has to come out. Well I don't know it to be a fact, but given the Grampas' didn't put the tranny back in the car I suspect they knew what was coming. So after a pretty close inspection, we were off for home and well.. yes you guessed it, time to tell Mom. We arrived home and I think I pretty much stalled and waited for supper. Then you know, I was busy eating, then well I am sure there was something on TV of great importance. You see while my Mom is only about 5 foot 2 and maybe 120-130 pounds, and at 16 I was 6 feet, 225 pounds and was not someone most would want to try to bully around and my Dad was likely about 240 pounds and had forearms on him that would blow you away... Even Dad and I combined, we were not about to take on my Mom... finally I thought I had gotten out of telling Mom as she said she was going to go get ready for bed and Dad pipes up and said something to the effect of - "Tim wants to tell you about the new car he bought".. talk about letting the cat out of the bag,.. So it was quite a discussion, and yes, what about insurance, how much did it cost, how did you pay for it, and a huge list of questions came from Mom. I can tell you the CIA, FBI and even the Canadian Mounties combined couldn't interrogate as well as my Mom could. The good news is I lived to tell the story, although I have to tell you a few times I thought I was dead, and my Dad was there trying to be supportive, but hey lol there was only so much he could do. I think it was the fact that I had paid more for a used car that needed work, that Mom and Dad had paid for a brand new 1971 car. Of course they got it through an employee discount program and well, it had a slant 6 in it, and mine had a hemi, but of course I wasn't mentioning that because that would have opened up the discussion about how much gas this thing used. Sunday we were going down to the farm for supper and Dad asked Mom if she wanted to go early to look at the car. So down to the farm we go and really, truly taking Mom to look at a car that wasn't running really wasn't exactly a great idea even though Dad and I thought it would be.. lol We all went into the house and after an hour with Grampa not saying to much, I asked Mom if she want to see the car. Down to the barn we went, and honestly it really wasn't as bad as I thought.. As Grampa, Dad and I looked on Mom opened up the door, got into the car and remarked that at least the car was fairly clean, and then muttered but of course for $4500 it should be. Then Grampa who really wasn't exactly a shrinking violet at about 6 foot 6 and 285 pounds says in a low voice. "Oh it was only $3000. Jean McLean dropped it by $1500.. Now I was excited about that news and Dad was nodding like he was impressed.. Mom... nope. she just says, so you just about over paid for the car by $1500. Now how do you respond to that one.. Easy... I think it is in the Kingsbury DNA when your Mother takes a shot like that.... you.......... of course, you stand there, say nothing and pretend your a statue ! Because there is nothing you can say that doesn't get you in more trouble. She then looks down kicks the back tire (honest she really did) and says- "well at least it has good tires so it couldn't have been driven to hard".. Again, Kingsbury DNA ... statue.. you don't say ****..because there is no way you can win or improve your position.. I don't remember, but I can pretty much bet all three of us Kingsbury Men were nodding.. So Mom knows, Dad knows, the car is $1500 less than I thought..Grampa Kingsbury and Bolton have helped fix things up.. we just have the engine to do... we should be away to the races right... well not quite. End of chapter two.. In Chapter 3.. Out comes the engine and the rebuild begins. Keeping in Mind, how bad could it be... lol... Punch line - "At least the block isn't cracked!"