B-Watson

Yes, the 1941 to 1948 Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler all shared the same bodies. The Dodge was on a 119½" wheelbase, DeSoto and Chrysler 6 - 121½ wheelbase and the Chrysler 8 - 127½". The wheelbase differences were all in the engine compartment. The Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler long wheelbase models were 18" longer than the base sedans. The Plymouth used its own, slightly smaller body, on a 117" wheelbase that was introduced in 1940 and used through 1948. The 1942 models received new exterior sheet metal that gave the car a slightly more rounded look.

Henry Ford have a Swiss bank account? Not in his life time. He hated bankers and banks and would have nothing to do them. In the recession of 1921 he had a surplus of cars and parts. He shipped the cars to dealers C.O.D. and they were told to take the cars or lose their Ford dealership. And that was how Ford got through the crisis - using his dealers' money instead of the banks. (The Ford Model T had over 50% of the car market at that time.) From 1915 to 1922 Ford made a 4 door sedan with no front doors. They called it the Centre Door Sedan. Apparently the front seat was two pieces with a space between to get to the front seat from the rear. Which is where you entered or left the vehicle. Door locks appeared on closed models in the mid 1920's and in 1926 the touring car added a door for the driver. All kinds of neat ways to cut costs. Ford of Canada built their touring cars with four doors as BC was RHD drive until 1923 while the other eight provinces were LHD.

For 1951, 1952 and 1953 U.S. built Chryslers use the model year instead of the model code in the engine number prefix. Thus engine numbers were 1951 : C51 (6 cyl) / C51-8 (V8) 1952 : C52 (6 cyl) / C52-8 (V8) 1953 : C53 (6 cyl) / C53-8 (V8) For 1954 they returned to the normal model numbers, although with "-8" for the V8 models : C62, C63-8, C64-8, C66-8 Canadian Chryslers kept the model code system through to the end of 1957 production.

Mopar cars had the firewall painted body colour, and that goes back at least to the early thirties. The whole front doghouse was painted the body colour and then attached to the body. Costs money to mask the body to prevent over spray when you do the firewall in black. Chrysler's new, larger bodies for 1949 were more expensive than their competitors and Chrysler began losing market share. Thus they started cutting the cost of building cars - cutting back on paint, dropping the partition behind the rear seat, replacing wood grain with paint, etc.

In North America the 1940 Plymouth and Dodge D15/D16 was on a 117" wheelbase with the D14/D17 Dodge on a 119½" wheelbase and the 6 cylinder DeSoto and Chrysler on 122½". Plymouth and Dodge shared the same body while the DeSoto/Chrysler body was the Plymouth body with the rear axle moved back 3". The DeSoto/Chrysler 4 door sedans had a 3" longer rear quarter window than the Plymouth and Dodge and the coupes had the extension in the trunk of the body. Did the Australian 1940 Chrysler body have a similar extension in the sedans?

The Packard Clipper was designed by Howard "Dutch" Darrin and was the first car to be built by Briggs for Packard. Briggs rarely did styling work for Chrysler or Packard as both companies had their own styling staff. The Chrysler Corp. town cars had a slope at the rear end that was identical to the six window sedan and not as drawn out as the Clipper. Not surprising, really, as the luggage compartment lid of the town sedan was the same as used on the two door sedan, the six window four door sedan, and the LWB sedans. You can see this if you look at the New Yorker town sedan, which is more of a side view to match the Clipper photo. Briggs made bodies for Plymouth, including the 1942 town sedans. But again, the rear of the town sedan was the same as the six window sedan. There were differences in roof stampings for the C pillar, the section behind the rear doors. The rear fenders for each make were the same for all body styles and thus the Mopar town sedan rear ends look stumpy from the side view in comparison to the Clipper . As I stated earlier, Briggs did not build all the bodies for Chrysler Corp. The body used for Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler from 1941 was built in Chrysler Corp body plants. And they shared a great number of stampings, including the luggage lid for all their sedans - 2 door, 4 door six window, town sedan and LWB sedan. Only Plymouth relied on Briggs for bodies, either the Mack Avenue plant or the Evansville body plant located south west of Plymouth's assembly plant. Attached is a side view shot of a 1941 DeSoto Town Sedan and the rear quarter shot of a 1941 Dodge Town Sedan. You can clearly see how short the tail end is in comparson to the Packard Clipper and how the rear slopes down from the roof to the bumper.

The complete list of town sedan models : Plymouth - 1942 Special DeLuxe : 5,821 Dodge (Export - Plymouth body) - 1942 Special DeLuxe : 55 Dodge - 1941 Luxuryliner Custom : 16,074 - 1942 Custom : 4,047 - 1946-1948 Custom : 27,800 DeSoto - 1941 Custom : 4,362 - 1942 Deluxe : 291 and Custom -:1,084 Chrysler - 1941 Royal : 1,277 - Windsor : 2,704 - Saratoga & New Yorker : 2,326 - Crown Imperial Special : 894 - 1942 Royal : 73 - Windsor : 479 - Saratoga : 46 - New Yorker : 1,648 - 1946-1948 Town & Country Six : 4,049 - Town & Country Eight : 100 Plymouth and the Plymouth-based Dodge export models had their bodies built by Briggs, but Dodge bodies were built by Dodge at their Hamtramck plant and DeSoto / Chrysler bodies were built at Chrysler's Kercheval body plant on East Jefferson Avenue, across the street from the East Jefferson plant. Special / low production bodies were contracted out to various body builders. Chrysler bodies were trucked from the Kercheval plant across the street to the East Jefferson plant while DeSoto bodies were trucked across town to the DeSoto plant on Wyoming Avenue. Chrysler of Canada built their own bodies, but built town sedans only in 1941. The 1941 Town Sedan is a Crown Imperial Special - basically a New Yorker town sedan with fancier upholstery and the Crown Imperial engine - 6.8 :1 compression ratio, aluminum head, 140 bhp. Also note the Crown Imperial wheel covers.

There should also be a plate on the firewall, engine side, with the following information : Model No Body No Trim Code Paint Code The paint codes on Canadian-built cars prior to the mid-1960's had most colours different from the U.S. I do not have the trim codes for the 1946-48 models but can help with the other three.

Nice car! Looks like a body tag on the firewall which means this one could be a Canadian Plymouth. Being a P10 it is either a DeLuxe or Custom. The Custom was a Canada-only series.

Along with a Cadillac grille and 1949 or 1950 Lincoln wheel covers. And a much wider rear window. Altogether, it really looks great!

Yep, that was the way it was pronounced back then when they were actually building coupés. The word was French in origin - coupé - and was pronounced "coo-pay". Seems "coo-pay" became "koop" with the arrival of the hardtop "koop" (coupe).

The "C53" was for the 1953 Chrysler 6 (Windsor and Windsor Deluxe), The V8 engines were C53-8. At least in the US. In Canada the Windsor engine prefix was C60, for the model number of the car. US Chrysler cars prior to 1951 used the model number for the engine number prefix. Your engine number of C53-50889 means it was the 49,889th C53 flathead six (264.5-cid) built. Both Windsor and Windsor Deluxe models used C53 prefix engines. The model number for your car is C60-2, for Windsor DeLuxe, as per the serial number. Chrysler Windsor Deluxe models were built in Detroit (East Jefferson plant), Los Angeles and Windsor, Ontario. Canadian serial numbers started with "9". Model 60-1 was the lower priced Windsor series. The serial number is not decodable and is a sequential number that started at 1001 with the first Chrysler in 1924. Serial numbers starting with "7" were for US-built Chryslers. As the first Detroit serial number for the C60-2 was 71,005,001 and your car is 71,032,569, your car is the 27,569th C60-2 built at East Jefferson. The final serial number for Detroit-built C60-2 was 71,050,872 for a total of 45,872. An addtional 3,434 were built at Los Angeles and 3,015 at Windsor, Ontario. The serial numbers for the C60-1 Windsor at East Jefferson started at 70,110,001 and ended at 70,140,156 for a total of 30,156. For the body tag - Model - 25 - Windsor DeLuxe 4dr Sedan Paint - 22 - Everglades Green Metallic Trim - 16 - Seats are done in green cloth Sched - 154 - Car scheduled to be built on the 154th of 1953 production Item - 0258 - Believe the 258th car to be built that day The rest are numbers for the options on the car - power steering, Fluid Torque Drive, radio, back up lights, etc. You can order the car's build record from FCA Historical. Not sure of the rates these days. The build record will confirm the engine number for that serial number and the options installed on the car. Hope this helps

Did some more digging. GM is leaving South Africa by the end of the year. Their assembly plant is being taken over by Isuzu. They are also abandoning the auto market in India. Also downloaded a pdf file by GM - "Strategic and Operational Overview", released September 21, 2016. Everything was all roses and great stuff then, with Australia and Europe being given a glowing review - Opel/Vauxhall had best year in 2015 since 2011 while Holden was #3 in Australia. How fast things change. Bill (End of diversion and back to KH)

Holden production has come to an end? Is GM importing cars then? I know GM is selling off Vauxhall and Opel in Europe. Wondering now about Ranger in South Africa. How the mighty have fallen. Here in Canada FCA has been doing battle with Ford for #1 with GM in #3 for the past few years.. This year FCA has been dealing with soft Jeep sales and GM is now slightly ahead of FCA. Back in the 1950's and 1960's Chrysler of Canada was #3 with sales less about half that of Ford who in turn was less than half of GM. Bill Vancouver, BC

Numbers starting with "11" are for Detroit-built Plymouth Special DeLuxe models, "25" are for Los Angeles and "20" for Evansville, Indiana. Canadian numbers started with "9". Chrysler Corporation used serial numbers that were numeric sequences. Nothing to be decoded, just check the number against the list of numbers issued by Chrysler to see where yours fit in. So, for a Detroit-built Plymouth P15-C Special DeLuxe the serial numbers would be - 1946 - 11,496,001 to 11,643,103 1947 - 11,643,104 to 11,854.385 1948 - 11,854,386 to 12,066,019 1949 - 12,066,020 to 12,116,123 Chrysler's marketing people in the U.S. declared on December 1, 1948 that from that point all cars were now 1949 models. In the case of Detroit for the P15-C Special DeLuxe, 12,066,020 was the first 1949 model. They were still P15 models, and would be produced through to the 3rd week of January, 1949 although referred to as 1st series 1949 models. The "real" 1949 models (P17 and P18) would go into production during the 2nd week of February. 1949. In Canada, the P15 and the other postwar models were produced until the end of December, 1948. And they were still sold as 1948 models. No cars were built by Chrysler of Canada in January 1949 and the production of the "real" 1949 models began in February, 1949.

It is a 1953 Kaiser Manhatten 2 door sedan The attached photo of the green 1951 Kaiser Special is a production 4 door sedan. The rear door on the 4 door sedan is longer than the quarter glass on the 2 door sedan due to the longer front door, which was also used on the business coupe and the club coupe. The red and grey 1951 Kaiser Special is a two door sedan - note how narrow the strip is between the rear window and the trunk lid. The red 1951 Kaiser DeLuxe is a Club Coupe - note the wider gap between the rear window and trunk lid as the rear seat is further forward due to the shorter greenhouse. The same trunk lid was used on all models except the Travelers. The Club Coupes are rare but most people like them over the two door sedans.

Getting back to the Packard coupe at the beginning of this thread, that body style was introduced as a 4 door sedan in mid-1941 and the fastback 2 door club sedan (as Packard called it) came out for 1942. For 1948 Packard "updated" the styling by making the doors thicker to have the side sheetmetal run from the front fender to the rear of the car. Personally, I like the pre-1948 club sedan -

The 1941 DeSoto is a business coupe (no back seat) while the 1946 is a club coupe (with back seat). Both body styles were built by DeSoto from 1941 through the 1st series 1949 models. Also, a 2 door sedan generally shared the same roof line as the 4 door sedan. The club coupe was a six passenger car with a rear seat but had a shorter greenhouse (the upper portion of the body above the belt line) making the rear seat closer to the front seat .

There were swing type windshields for 1939 as well, but as in 1938 only for export models. The 1938 export models were built in Canada and the U.S. - P5, P6, D8, D9, D10 (Canada only), S5, C18, C19 (built only in the U.S.). The Canadian-built 1938 Dodge D10 DeLuxe Six was sold in export markets and thus had the opening windshield available. The 1939 Dodge D13 DeLuxe Six was not offered as an export model and thus only a fixed windshield was available while the other Plymouth-based Dodge, the D12, was built in Canada and the U.S. for export markets. The export models were P7, P8, D11, D12, S6, C22, C23 (built only in the U.S.).

Also gets to be fun with the Canadian-built 1937 to 1941 Plymouths. 1937 - P3 - Six (Called Business Six in the U.S.) 1937 - P4 - DeLuxe Six (coupes and sedan) & P4 - Custom Six 4dr Trg Sedan 1938 - P5 - Six (U.S. models became Roadking in mid-year) 1938 - P6 - DeLuxe Six 1938 - P6C - Custom Six 1939 - P7 - Roadking Six 1939 - P8 - DeLuxe Six 1939 - P8C - Custom Six 1940 - P9 - Roadking Six 1940 - P10 - DeLuxe Six 1940 - P10C - Custom Six 1941 - P11 - Roadking 1941 - P11S - Roadking Special 1941 - P12 - DeLuxe 1941 - P12C - Custom The lowest priced series (Six / Roadking) came with one taillamp (driver), one sun visor (driver), one windshield wiper (driver), and no vent wings in front doors (one piece glass). The 1937-1940 DeLuxe added the seond taillamp, second sun visor, second windshield wiper and front door vent wings. The Custom had fancier upholstery and trim than the DeLuxe series. The 1941 Roadking Special added front door vent wings and a second taillamp while the 1941 Deluxe Six added the second windshield wiper and sun visor. as well as extra trim. Starting with the 1942 models Plymouth used only one model number with a suffix to denote the series. The 1942 DeLuxe was P14S while the Special DeLuxe was P14C. The 1949-1952 Plymouth on the 111" wheelbase had a different model code than the 118½" wheelbase models and from 1955 to 1957 the models with a V8 engine used a different model code than the six cylinder models..

No, the Canadian-built 1938 models had a one-piece, fixed windshield while the 1939 models had 2-piece, fixed windshields. As in the U.S.

The 1951-52 Dodge D39 (Kingsway), D40-1 (Crusader) and D40-2 (Regent) are all based on 1951-52 Plymouth P22 (Concord), P23-1 (Cambridge) and P23-3 (Cranbrook). Next to nothing on the American Dodge D41 (Wayfarer) and D42 (Meadowbrook / Coronet) will interchange with the D39 or D40. The D41 and D42 bodies are both longer and wider than the Plymouth bodies. The D42 body was shared with DeSoto and Chrysler. The major differences between the 1951and 1952 small Dodge (D39, D40) is the rear nameplate,license lamp housing, and fender side nameplates. The 1951 version was carried forward from 1950 while the 1952 moved the name down to the license lamp housing. The nameplate on the front fender used block letters in 1951 while the 1952 models used script. The Dodge hood ornament was changed for 1952, but I am not sure what was changed. The hood ornament and the letters on the hood, except for the middle "D", are some of the few parts that are the same for the small and large Dodge models. One thing about working on old cars - Never assume that what is on the car today was on the car when it rolled off the assembly line. Many things can happen over the years. An incorrect trunk nameplate could be the result of someone using an older trunk lid to replace one damaged in an accident. Or transferring the nameplate from one car to another. By the way, the serial numbers for 1951 and1952 D39 models - 1951 : 97,004,001 to 97,006,504 - 2,504 built 1952 : 97,006,601 to 97,007,582 - 982 built Bill Vancouver, BC

Eh Dubya, Thanks for all the information on the pre-war era for Australia. The certainly helps answer a lot of questions I had! Thanks, Bill Vancouver, BC

The Dodge you were looking at was a model D8, on a 115" wheelbase. Early Canadian-built D8 models came with a 3 1/4" bore as the Canadian engine plant did not start up until after production of 1938 models began. The first Canadian-built D8 had serial number 9,413,746 and the final D8 was 9,416,683 - a total of 2,938. The first D8 with a Canadian built engine (D8-1001C) was 9,415,694. So, the first 1,948 cars had the US 217.6-cid engine and the remainder had the Canadian 218.1-cid engine. 1938 US serial numbers beginning with "30" were built at Dodge Main, Hamtramck, Michigan, and those beginning with "40" were built at the Plymouth (former Graham Brothers Truck) plant in Evansville, Indiana. Bill Vancouver, BC

Actually, the fact the alternator puts out a charge at idle is one of the main reasons Chrysler switched to alternators in 1960-61. They had alternators on the option list for years prior to that, although they needed mechanical voltage rectifiers. No electronic diodes before 1960. They were offered as police and taxi equipment. The important part is that the engine is idling at the factory recommended rpms. In December, 2014 I drove from Toronto, Ontario, to Vancouver, BC. Just past Calgary I refuelled and moved the car to a coffee shop next door. After getting coffee and some donuts, the car would not start. So a kind motorist gave me a boost. Drove the car from there to Golden where I got a room for the night. The Alt gauge was showing a charge all the way, but the lights never flckered. Had the lights, heater fan, radio and wipers (it snowed all the way from Calgary to Golden) on for the whole time. After checking in, I drove to the room (never shut the engine off) and unloaded my luggage for the night. Then turned the engine off. Everything shut off - engine, radio, interior lights, headlights and taillights. Everything shut down. Drove all the way from Calgary to Golden with a battery that was not taking a charge. Had a voltage tester and the battery showed 0. Replaced the battery the next day and continued on to Vancouver. That battery is still in the car and is working fine. So you can drive an alternator equipped car with a dead battery.