austinsailor

You are correct, that takes care of the Fargo. I'm wondering, thought, if the Desoto block has any use. Unless I can find pistons bigger than .060 over 3 7/16, it's nothing more than a boat anchor. Seems a waste, but that may just be the way it is.

Well, I found out I was all wet. Both motors are 4 1/4 stroke, so there is no advantage to swapping. The difference is in the bore. So, with the Desoto at .060 over, the block is of no use unless there are pistons bigger than .060 over. If it had been a 3 3/8 bore motor, it could be bored to take 3 7/16 pistons. I'm not aware of a size above 3 7/16. Are there any pistons around that will work that are over .060 above 3 7/16? I know you can get custom ones made, but they're about $1000 a set. You can buy a lot of cores for that. If there is nothing practical, I might just saw up the block and study what could be done to it. Things like the thickness where porting is done, how much a valve opening could be opened up, that sort of thing.

I took the spindles out of a 53 today and they matched the bigger size.

thanks! they found them, 2 sets left in Ill. They'll be here Friday. I should be back on the road Friday night.

I've got a couple motors I want to mix some parts up on. I have a 1951 Fargo, 228 ci, 4 1/4 stroke 3 3/8 Bore .010 over. I have a 1948 desoto 236 ci motor only, 4 1/2 stroke 3 3/8 bore, .060 over, Some of the pistons I'm selling for the machinist are 3 3/8, .030 over and .040 over. Now the question. Can I take the rods and crank from the desoto, put them in the Fargo block and use the pistons that were for a desoto/dodge truck? The desoto block is bored out to far to go again, most likely. I think I can salvage the rest and have a good, even a bit bigger, motor in the Fargo. Or, am I nuts?

the king pins just came in at napa and are not right. the book shows 50-56 as the same, no earlier listings. mine are apx .8, these are .875 (apx) I thought 48 up would be the same. anyone got part numbers?

>I don't know about the rest of the world, but that ain't street > legal here in Indiany I'm curious why, if you are serious.

I have a friend with a machine shop, he does much of the older engine work around here. He has a stack of pistons he asked if I could find buyers for, and I'm guessing some can be used by people here. I posted a chart of what he has here: http://austinsailor.net/parts/PISTONLIST.html Mainly 33-41 plymouth and some dodge truck/desoto 3 3/8 sets. Includes the pins, no rings. new in the box, (pretty dusty boxes!) at $100 a set. I'm buying one 3 3/8 set as soon as I take the head off my 48 Desoto block and see how much it needs to be bored. Feel free to email me with questions or for pictures or measurements or whatever you need. austin.sailor@yahoo.com Thanks, Gene

does that mean it was a one year deal? probably a hard one to find parts for.

I'm puzzled how the lifters and valves get oiled. The galleys go to the mains and the cam bearings, but I don't see what path it has to get to the lifters and valves them selves. There are the 3 little dam that hold oil that goes to the lifters, but don't see how it get's there. I assume it's splatter that gets it up on the valve stems once it is in the valve area.

I used my slide hammer with only ony finger, working my way around till it's out.

Yes, once I figure out what I'm going to use.

For better or worse, I'm done with the block and it's in the truck, ready to return to the machine shop in the morning. Here are before and after photos.

Interesting. Did the column shift have the shifter on top like the old version, or was it on the side like the new version?

"Converted to a floor shift"? 39 was a floor shift. It was never anything else.

Probably. There were many sizes, what is it from, or give some measurements.

it is a truck engine with sodium filled valves. could that be the difference? and, yes, he'll clean the block when all the work is done. as to the guides, he's putting in some sort of sleeves. seems to be the way to do it now. when I tore down the motor it had heavy layers of oil crude in the intake passages between the guide and valve. this tells me it was sucking oil through the intake valve guides. I asked about using those umbrella type seals you'd put on an ohv motor. As I guessed, he said they wouldn't stay in place to seal. he said years ago one of the companies made a spring to go inside the valve spring to hold them up. he also was willing to press out the guides and machine a lip to hold on another kind of seal, then re-install them. I doubt either is needed on a fresh motor, and I could always tear it down and do it, just adding a gasket set to the cost. Any thoughts on this? Oh, Edgerton has my cam done, things are coming together!

My pictures don't seem to show things as good as the one on the HAMB, but here they are.

I'd seen that thread some time ago. I need to spend some time looking at details again. He's working on a short Plymouth block, mine is a long truck block. On his, the guides stick far above the place I'm talking about and I don't know if it's because of the different block or because a different part was used in rebuilding. But even without the guide difference, the restrictive part I'm talking about is much more pronounced on mine. The two pictures are from his. In the view looking into the port of his motor, the boss around the guide is not nearly as restrictive before porting as mine. On mine the guide is set down nearly 1/4" below the cast, his is well above it. Mine also has a raised area completely across it. In the picture looking down he has removed it almost to the guide. It looks similar to what I have in mind, but mine didn't start out like his. I need to get some pictures tonight. I think I can, not sure how well my camera will do with that. As to cleaning, once I get done, it'll go back to the machine shop and he'll do the valves. Then it'll go in the tank and get a serious cleaning. The pistons are still at his shop. Once the cam comes back from Edgerton, probably next week, we'll install the cam bearings, deck it and clean it up completely. I will have to say it's much easier and quicker to remove the metal in the ports than I thought it would be. It goes pretty quick.

You guys have been very helpful with answers as I tackle this 251. I got it back from the machine shop, freshly bored and pistons fitted. My job this weekend was to get all the old broken, bent and rusted manifold studs out, the water distribution tube out and do whatever porting I want done. I'll take it back to him the first of the week and he'll start on the valves. Got all the studs out and the water distribution tube out, now I'm working on cleaning up the ports. Which leaves me with a question on porting. I'll have a new gasket set in the morning, tonight all I had was one of the little ones that fits the end exhaust ports. But I ground those two out to fit the gasket and smoothed them out going in as far as the valve guide. In studying it, it appears that the big bulge sticking out from the valve guide is really blocking a lot of exhaust path. I could easily remove a great deal of it. The guides are set down about 1/4 inch into the hole, leaving only cast iron sticking up, with the ridge going across. Removing much of that would seem to greatly improve exhaust flow. Is this advisable? Any thoughts or experience with this? Am I even making any sense?

So I was figuring it wrong. I thought it was the ratio of the displacement part to the compression chamber. But it's really total volume before and after compression? This means I'm getting a pretty good compression ratio, I think this is a good thing. I'm glad I asked.

Thanks. That is good info. Sounds like I'm not out of line at .100, but I need to check when done. If you have it on the road now, do you see any difference?

done that. Shows to be 6.5 to 1.

I'm starting with .5 depth in the head, the gasket adds about .075. Lift will be .410. .575 - .410 = 0.165 to play with. Depends a bit on how high the valves are above the head to start. Might need a bit of relief. Guess I'll wait until the motor is assembled, the do some closer measurements. My machinist tells me that there is nothing needed to be added if it clears. Unlike a rod at high speeds, no stretch or anything to be concerned with. I'm still wondering just how safe it is to remove .1 or more. I'm also wondering how the 9:1 or so is figured. My numbers, calculating the head volume, cylinder displacement, allowing for the volume in the head gasket, don't come close to that. I figure the cylinder at 42.74 ci (3 7/16 bored .040 over), the head gasket at .92 (apx 3.2 by .38 by .075) and the head at 5.7972 ci. Taking off .010 of the block and .1 of the head makes 5.384, into 42.74 = 7.938. Am I missing something?

I fail to see how knurling will stop oil use. The same volume of gap is still there, it is just cut into ridges. I do know it'll tighten up the valves and make them seat better, therefore make it run smoother with more power, but I'm not so sure of the oil control. I have used seals before, but in ohv engines, and installed them without removing the heads.. Can you install them in a flathead without removing the valves? I wonder if you could removed the keepers, slip off the flat deal on the bottom of the spring, use the valve spring compressor to push up the spring, then slip them into the spring? Seems like an interesting challenge.