knuckleharley

There is a step plate right by the bumper brackets on the passenger side,and another step plate on top of the rear fender on the passenger side. You also see some cars that have grab handles bolted to the top of the rear quarters ,but I have only seen them on Model A's,and I think they were a aftermarket item. If you look closely at this photo of my coupe you can see a dark spot right on top of the rear fender. That is a cushioned rubber step plate.

Photos of some of my stuff is posted on that thread.

Yeah,they double as a bong.

Greg,you didn't offer to paint any cars while you were at the show with your electro-lu8x?

Norm wrote: >>You'd almost need a magnifying glass to see that scuff. No one would even notice it unless he pointed it out. In fact, he even said he didn't notice it until he was waxing the car. Now, thats anal.<< Yup. I feel sorry for those people. He MIGHT enjoy owning the car,but even that is doubtful because it will never be nice enough to please him no matter how nice it gets. And there is no way he will ever enjoy driving the car because he will be too worried about rock chips and bugs. These people are in desperate need of a hobby.

Then again,just to stir the pot a little,the Dodge 4's of the 20's were called "Fast Fours"! (G) True confession time. I've been wanting to own a original Fast 4 for years now. I want to keep it as original as possible,and just drive it around to have fun terrorizing all the Model T's and A's that are around here.

bob westphal wrote: >> It was the '57 Rebel that was the fastest production car beating out cars like the 'Vette.<< Bob,you are right and I was wrong. I stand corrected. >>As for the which car that actually was the first muscle car - how about Deusenburg, Buick, or Studebaker? << I'll go along with the Buick because it was a actual production car that was specially built for the purpose of going fast. >>Duesenburg came out with their super charged engine in the early 30s. << Duesenbergs were hardly production cars. They were insanely expensive and insanely fast luxury cars. To be truthful,I consider them and their Auburn and Cord brothers to be more along the lines of works of art than cars. IMO,the 3 most beautiful cars ever built anywhere in the world at any time. If you have never been to the A-C-D Museum and have the chance,you owe it to yourself to go. No matter how beautiful those cars look on film,you won't appreciate their beauty until you see them in person. >>?Studebaker had the straight eight President in the late 30s. << Another limited production expensive luxury car. If we had to pick the first,I would vote for the Buick. Anybody in any city in the country could walk inside a Buick dealership on any day of the week and drive away in one.

Guys,I guess I am the guilty party for starting this thing. Dumping on the POC or other clubs wasn't my intention. I am not much of a "joiner" or a social person to start with,but was merely curious if I would even be welcome at these things in the future if I drove my V-8 P-15 or even my flat 6 Dodge to one in the future. I have no problem with any club coming up with any damnfool rules they think is neccessary,including a secret handshake if that's what they want. I will probably join the POC while I am out at the meet,but will do so purely to network so I can sell antique parts I don't want or need and buy antique parts I do want and need. When it comes to judging standards,I don't care what their judging standards are because no car I own will ever be put in a car show to be judged while I own it. This isn't a contest to me. It's a hobby. As long as I am allowed to drive my cars to their meets and enjoy myself,I will stay a member. If I am not allowed to do this,I will resign and demand a refund. If my cars are called "junk" by some anal members,they will hear things they had rather not hear. Trust me on this one. And when it comes to #@&*heads,restorers don't hold a candle to the cretins called Street Rodders. I have had a couple come in my work shop and spot my "original east coast style hot rod" unchopped 1932 Ford 5-window coupe that was originally built back in the late 40's or early 50's and still had copper brake lines on it when I got it,and say,"Cool car,man! You should chop the top,put suicide doors on it,and make it into a hot rod!" If you don't think THESE guys have "rules",you should go to a run one time and stand around and listen to them talk about each other's cars. I never though I would ever meet anybody any more anal that a restorer until I started meeting street rodders. It's all about bragging about who spent the most money on their cars and who won the most trophies or has a car "just like " one seen in a magazine. Then again,I am anti-social and have never understood why people play these games. I build or buy cars according to what I like personally. If I really like your car or something you have done to it,I will come up and tell you about it. If I don't like your car or something you have done to it,I will keep my mouth shut.

Tim Adams wrote: >>the hemi of early times was just a nice smooth moderate powered V8..<< By todays performance standards maybe,but not in a era where flathead Ford and Hudsons ruled. >>it was not until 1958 that the HEMI come into its own with the 392 << Ever try to explain this to Don Gartlits? Or countless other drag racers and hot rodders from the early 50? In 1956 there were two hot rods within a block of my house running Chrysler hemi's. One had 6 carbs,and the other one had 8 carbs. >> The early poly block with their semi-hemispherical head walked the dogs on the early hunks of iron called hemi's.<< Only in drag racing,and only because Chrysler only put the hemi's in the heavier cars that mostly had 2-speed automatics. Even then you didn't have much unless you had a Plyouth Fury with the optional cam and dual quads,AND if you are talking about stock classes,not gas or fuel drag classes. Show me ONE drag car from the 50's that ran a poly engine. >>And as horsepower to weight production cars run..meet the Dodge Dart 413 with 420 horse from the factory...<< And that has what to do with the early 50's? >>squaring the engine in terms of 1 horse to 1 cube did not make a muscle car...<< Yeah,it did if you are talking about "original muscle car". 1 hp per cubic inch in a stock engine was VERY big news back in the early 50's. Truth to tell,most of the hot rods running around on the streets back then didn't make that much power. >>today that is done is iddy biddy little 4 bangers and in most cases it is exceeded many horses over...<< And what does that have to do with what was happening in the early 50's? >>while there may be no substitute for cubic engines, I contend there is no substitue for electronic controlled engines...<< This I agree with,especially when these engines have dual overhead cams,teflon rings,etc,etc,etc. I just bought a new Nissan Altima. 4 cylinder engine that makes a STRONG 175 HP,and gets between 35 and 40 MPG. It doesn't even require the first tunup until it hits 105,000 miles. A lot of this is due to the computer controlling timing and fuel distribution. It is always in a perfect state of tune,where the best you could do with the old points and carb systems was to have it in a perfect state of tune at idel or wide open throttle. But again,what does this have to do with the early 50's? The early hemi was competing against flathead Ford V-8's,and smaller OHV V-8's from Olds,Cadillac,Studebaker,etc,etc,etc.

I think that title goes to a earlier hemi. I'm thinking maybe the Red Ram in the 500 series Dodges? My memory sucks as to which one,but the criteria was 1 horsepower per cubic inch,not 300 horsepower. BTW,the 56 DeSoto Adventurer ran faster than the Chrysler 300 in the flying mile at the Daytona Speed Trials in 1956. Since the little brother couldn't be allowed to outdo the big brother,the DeSoto developed mysterious mechanical problems that kept it from making a second run. It was a 341 cubic inch engine that was rated at I THINK 345 HP. I tried to buy one of these factory dual quad cast iron intakes for my 330 DeSoto engine on ebay the other day,but lost all interest when it went over 600 bucks. I think it ended up selling for around 750. No carbs,no linkage,just the bare intake.

The 1958 Rambler Ambassador 4 door hardtop with the 327 cubic inch engine,1 4brl carb,and pushbutton automatic was the fastest stock car tested by Hot Rod Magazine in the quarter mile in 1958. It even turned in a quicker time than the dual quad 4-speed Corvette. For those of you who don't know,the Nash became the Rambler. I have a 58 Rambler stationwagon,and it has a lot of Nash parts on it.

No. The wires I saw where connected to the wiper motor under the hood. I never bothered to look under the dash.

I think this has more to do with there being fewer complete original cars around. Even though it is MUCH easier to restore and find parts (thanks to reproductions and the internet) for 1940's and older cars today than it was in the 1970's,there are far fewer cars to find. My 33 Plymouth coupe is probably a typical example of what you find today if you are lucky and your wallet isn't so heavy you need help standing up. The motor,transmission,radiator,seat,rumble seat,toeboards,and a few other parts are missing. Add to that the fact the the entire body needs patch panels from the firewall to the rear bumper. Literally. The whole bottom of the car is rusted away. So are the floors,and there are even a few places on the chassis where thin and rusted away sections of the frame rails are going to have to be cut out and replaced. In other words,most restorers wouldn't have it for anything but parts,and then they would junk the rest. On the other hand,I like 50's and 60's style hot rods (NOT the oh-so-trendy "rat rods") and plan on putting a multi-carb DeSoto hemi in it with a push-button 727 if I can find one,and a 56 DeSoto or Aspen rear end. This means the car was a real find for me. I have already sold the wooden wheels that were on it to a restorer,and another restorer is waiting for me to take the brakes off and ship to him. Since I have to build a transmission tunnel,motor mounts,and transmission mounts anyhow,cutting short sections of rusty frame rails out and welding in replacement parts and welding in new floors is no big deal. I'm not thrilled about having to weld in the whole damn bottom of the car,but the reality is if it hadn't been this rough and rusty I wouldn't have been able to afford to buy it. Even the weatherstripping channel in the rumble seat opening is rusted away to the point where I don't even have enough to use as a pattern. Evidentially the car sat under some pine trees for a while. IMHO,it is a rare restorer that would even be willing to pay half of what I paid to buy this car because it just isn't nice enough to interest them. Same deal with my 42 Dodge business coupe. I had a anal restorer tell me the car isn't worth fixing,and that I should part it out. He may even be right from a restorers point of view because it's not really a rare high dollar car if it were perfect,and it is far from perfect. There is not one chance in hell of restoring this car and even getting half your money back when you go to sell it. I don't really give a rats ass what it is worth because I don't buy cars or work on cars for a profit. I buy and work on what I love. If other people like my cars,good. If they don't like my cars,too bad. It doesn't really matter to me either way because I fix them to suit myself and not to impress anybody or win any trophies. About the only time I get upset is when I hear some retard calling one of my cars "junk" because it's not restored. My "junk" will stop and handle much better than their restored cars,and do it will pulling them fast enough to blow them up. They can even get driven in the rain without being ruined. If I scatch the paint,that's what they make new paint for. I've been out driving my "junk" 48 Plymouth coupe,and had women in their mid-30's jump out of their Honda Accords and similar yuppimobiles at stoplights and run over smiling to tell me how pretty it is,and to ask me what it is. I've even had a few ask me if I would sell it to them. How often do people who own restored cars have this happen? It doesn't because they don't drive their cars. They also don't have the joy of looking over at a car passing on the 4 lane,and seeing a couple of little kids standing up in the back seat,waving and smiling at you as they pass. IMHO,any day you can make children smile is a worthwhile day. I'll take that over a trophy any day.

Norm,I used to have a friend that had a bumper sticker made up that said,"Only junk and race cars belong on trailers." That pretty much sums it up for me,too. I will add a couple of small notes,though. I am one of those people that will run right past a award-winning street rod or restored car without even looking at it to slobber all over a original project car on a trailer. The other point that as much as I love perfection,I would rather see a car that the owner painted in his driveway using a Electro-Lux vacuum cleaner (Ok,so now you know how old I am) that has a few runs and boo-boos in the paint that to see a car where somebody just wrote a check for a 5 thousand dollar pro paint job. It shows a personal connection to the car and his love for it,rather than just a connection to a trophy and bragging rights. IMHO,cars were meant to be driven and enjoyed,and unless you have a car like a Duesenberg that is worth a insane amoutn of money and can't be replaced,you should drive it. If you don't enjoy driving it,you should sell it to somebody that does and find another hobby.

greg g wrote: >>You can enter a midified car in POC shows if you are a POC member. You can also place a do not judge note on your car if you just want to display it. << Do not judge is the way I would go. I have about as much use for show cars as I do malignant tumors. >> The deal is a bit wierd << IMHO,more than a bit. Even more than a bunch. The people who own and judge show cars are people in desperate need of a hobby. >>So I will likely enter the POC show as a Do Not Judge, and just hang with the other p15 homies.<< Yeah,that sounds like a plan I could get behind. I might even try to talk a few of them into taking me for a ride.

I'm sorry for not explaining it better. It looked to me like there might have been a vacuum pump that was ran by the wiper motor. I know the wiper motor had two wires running to the motor at the bottom,and then had vacuum lines running out of a cover at the top.

Yeah,it is. I bought it to put a 318 and auto trans in,but after looking it over I decided it was too nice and too complete to hot rod,so I am now looking for a restorer to sell it to. Check out this photo of the front seat. Now,consider this. This car was the rough parts car. The guy I bought it from kept the "good one". I don't know about you,but I sure never started out with a project car this "rough". It is something I suspect it would be easy to get used to,though.

Here it is,Norm. The only thing I can find wrong about this one is that it doesn't belong to me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140150046273&rd=1

I don't know how rare they are,but I think you just cleared up a mystery I saw on a 48 Plymouth last week The guy had the hood open,and after seeing wires running to the wiper motor,I commented that it had the electric wiper. The owner wanted to argue with me and said it "is a vacuum wiper motor. See the hoses?" He couldn't explain to me why the wires were going to the motor,though. I think you just explained it to both of us.

Thanks MUCH,David. Arthur

Yeah,it would. Does this forum or anyone on it sell stuff like D-24/P-15 Tshirts? Arthur

>>the POC has a very narrow view of how you car should be presented. The foundation of the club is to maintain the cars in "factory correct" condition.<< Well,I guess it doesn't matter if I drive the Altima because neither of my Plymouths would be welcome.