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Loren last won the day on November 18 2024
Loren had the most liked content!
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609 ExcellentAbout Loren
- Currently Viewing Forum: P15-D24 Forum
- Birthday 10/11/1951
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Gender
Female
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Location
Gold Beach, Oregon
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Interests
All things Internal Combustion
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My Project Cars
1952 Plymouth Suburban, 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe
Converted
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Location
Dayton, NV
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Interests
Antique Cars & Motorcycles
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Occupation
Retired
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One of my projects was to put 12 brakes and a power brake booster on my 49. The very first problem was the Plymouth wheels didn't fit over the drums. So I got some aftermarket wheels and I wasn't very happy about it. I wanted Mopar wheels of the era. Anyway the tires were 205/75R15 Now in case you're shopping for tires those fit the original rims and they are close to the 6.70 15 tires ( a little wider but the same diameter ). One thing you need to know about them is they are a standard size for trailer tires. If you're shopping for price trailer tires are cheaper than car tires. I am thinking it's not a good idea to put trailer service tires on a car. The "P" metric size is P205/75R15. The trailer service size is ST205/75R15. So you can see the confusion. Well for my other Plymouth ( a Suburban ) I acquired a 50 Windsor chassis for the brakes and other pieces. It came with wheels too. 68CD7B15-A578-4E9E-87CB-614AFC5249DE_1_201_a.heic As you can see the are wider than stock. So I decided to investigate what tire would fit on them. P225/75R15 is just about what a Windsor would have on it today. I got them blasted and painted. However the Chrysler wheels used full wheel covers and didn't have the hub cap clips. So I had to buy the new AB trim rings and clips to hold the dog dish hub caps. I never really looked at the hub caps before and thought they were kind of heavy. The caps are a composite of a steel cap with a veneer of stainless steel over that. You can't straighten them but you can polish them. My local lumber yard ( Do it Best hardware dealer / Hillman fastener dealer ) had "4 lbs Tinner's Rivets" which are almost right to hold the clips. 1C24079E-D200-4720-AE36-0BF15DC96169_1_201_a.heic So I am really happy with how they look.
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You know I’ve thinking about this too. However I was going in a different direction. I was thinking of using an old propane tank or a refrigerant tank that you could put oil in and pressurize it with a tire valve then connect it to the engine oil galley. If you look in the shop manual the factory talks about an oil pressure leak down test. You take the pan off and pressurize the galley to see where the oil is leaking. They even had a special tool to do the test and criteria for how much leakage was allowed. That’s a lot more than I had in mind though. All I wanted to do is lube the engine before a first run. What I was thinking was this is a way to make sure the oil pump was primed ( of course you’d have to roll the engine over to turn the pump several rotations before it would prime ) Summit Racing and others have such equipment but it’s pricey.
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Do a search for posts on steering gear work. describing what to do takes too long to repeat. Basically you will want to change the seal on your steering box ( they leak and allow the gears to run dry ). Do not touch the gear engagement adjustment on top, you’ll only make things worse. The key adjustment is the bearing preload. Grab your steering wheel and pull up ( towards you ) and push downward, if there’s any movement it will show up in the car wandering.
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Back in the 1980s ( a lifetime ago ) I was a dealer Saab mechanic and off road racer. Finding a lube that could keep a transmission in those old cars was a challenge. Even the factory was on it. I won't go into the evolution ( again ) of how we hit on lower viscosity oil and Redline products in particular. I have three vehicles that are coming up on a transmission oil change, two automatics and a 1949 Plymouth Overdrive. So I thought I'd start the selection process before need. The first is a 2013 M-B GLK 250 which is a 7 speed automatic which has a change interval of 70,000 miles. I didn't make it that far because it started slipping in high gear at about 60,000 miles. When I read the procedure it sounded more like an engineering project than maintenance. There's no dip stick/fill tube. You have to use a device to pump the fluid in from the bottom, then run the engine to warm up the transmission which you have to check with an inferred thermometer. Once it warms up the temperature determines the level. The torque converter has a drain plug but nobody drains it so the car owner only gets 50,000 miles till the transmission slips again. The second time I bought the equipment and did the change myself. It's near the change interval and no slipping. The Mercedes spec is designated as M-B NAG-2. A check of the Redline products indicates D6 ATF meets that spec. The second is a 2008 Ford F 250 Diesel. It is a whole lot simpler than the Benz but it requires Mercon LV. The Redline D6 ATF meets that spec too! Now we are getting somewhere! I like the idea of using one lube in as many vehicles as I can. Makes it worthwhile to use the better stuff. The Plymouth used to use GL-1 lube which surprisingly is still available. Over the years I have learned that if you want to clean the inside of a manual transmission before you rebuild it you can drain and refill it with cheap ATF. The inside will be clean as a clock! A quick read of the Redline D6 ATF spec sheet tells you it can be used in manual transmissions replacing all but GL5. The main issue with the Overdrive is the Sprag Clutch. Extreme Pressure ( EP ) lubes can cause them to slip and so that is why GL1 used to be spec'd. Automatic Transmissions use planetary gear sets and Sprag Clutches so we know ATF is compatible. Red Line MTF is plenty good for a regular 3 speed transmission and is a little cheaper. Plymouth transmissions are well designed and don't require crazy expensive lube oil. However if you put the money out for an Overdrive you might want to feed it the best you can get. My inventory of transmission lube just got much simpler.
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On another topic for carburetor repair. Whenever you take a carburetor apart from an engine that was running, shake the float. Sometimes they develop a pin hole and they fill with fuel. There's some debate as to why this happens but I don't think it matters. Only the detection and the repair matter. If you suspect fuel in the float get a pair of pliers and hold the float in them then take a match to the float. When you heat it the fuel will want to come out and it will identify where the hole is. Note where the hole is and continue heating with the hole on the bottom till there's no more fuel in the float. Now you can repair the hole with a soldering iron and electronic solder. In the good old days they sold a lot of floats, then they went to the black foam plastic floats. Those days are gone but it's no big deal to repair a float that has only a single hole.
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Yes those old parking brakes are suspect! They hold real good when you leave they on! ( After a couple of blocks ) On a dark foggy night in San Diego, my 49 started to slow down on a flat road. I gave it full throttle and it did a sudden nose dive. I restarted it and let out the clutch and the engine died again without so much as a wiggle of the car. As I sat there looking at the dashboard trying to figure out what was going on, tendrils of smoke drifted up between me and the dashboard! I opened the car door and leaned down to look under the car and there was a bright orange glow on the ground. Once I released the hand brake I was able to proceed on my way like nothing happened. I knew a guy who washed his old Plymouth for a date, then went in to shower. When he came out the car was gone! He heard a commotion down the street and saw his car upside down in the middle of the intersection. In those days a 1949-54 Plymouth was a "Transportation Car" and you could buy a good one for $150. ( 1964 ) By Monday he was driving a 1953 and it was nicer than his late lamented 1950. Those days are long gone so be real careful with your "Survivor Car".
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If you are in Europe you might be familiar with the old SAAB freewheeling. The B-W R10-G1 has a sprag clutch which works just like the SAAB freewheel, in fact if you took one apart you'd see the familiar rollers. As in the SAAB you can let off the gas and down shift. You can up shift by allowing the engine rpm to drop below a certain threshold. Remember that any speed above 27 mph, when you take your foot off the gas the transmission will try to shift into Overdrive. One thing to remember as with the SAAB you can not park the car in gear and expect it to hold it from rolling. You have to lock the Overdrive in direct drive and set the parking brake. Some folks carry wheel chocks, which is the smart way to go. The old MoPar parking brakes are usually not in the best of shape and they will fail at a most inopportune time.
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Melvin1777 started following Loren
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Vintagepowerwagons.com has dip sticks and the tube they go into all brand new. The tube just pulls out.
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The way the shifter works inside is the shift forks on the rails have the detents. The levers on the outside do not, so they kind of flop around. While you have the linkage off, check the shaft lever. If it moves tight up and down then the bushing at the steering column needs some lube. It’s made of a kind of webbing ( cotton maybe ) so go easy on it. You can take the two screws out of column and pull the lever away from the column a little to double check and lube it. A shot of PB Blaster will limber it up.
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Wow! You do drive your car a little hard! The governor enables shifting into O.D. at approx 27 mph. With a 3.73 axle ratio it takes some practice and determination to shift into 2nd O.D. 1st O.D. Is theoretically possible but the engine doesn’t have enough useful rpm left to trigger the governor. Seems to me your governor might be out of adjustment. If you are working with a 4.1 final drive I would be changing that right away! Although the mid year 1952s were spec’d with 4.3s. I have several 3.9s I would donate for the shipping. It would be a small improvement but worth the effort. As a rule cruise speed would be determined by 80% of peak horse power which is 3,600 rpm, thus 2,880 rpm. If you’re wringing more than that from it you’re off the power curve needlessly because the engine’s pulling power drops off.
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For my 49 Bus Coupe I have acquired a 230 engine with an aluminum head and a two single barrel Thickstun manifold with a set of Red's tube headers. So I expect some additional H.P. The newly rebuilt R10 I put together has the 1940 gear set. With some extra power under the hood I feel the engine can handle a 3.54 gear ratio, which I have on hand. Remember a flathead Plymouth was good for a 22 sec 1/4 mile, so don't be expecting to out run too many modern cars. They will cruise nicely as described above at 65/70 all day, however. 2500 pounds sterling is rather steep even for the other side of the pond! Which is about $3,175 in U.S. dollars!! I don't know what shipping and duties are but you could probably get a really good one from someone in the U.S. for a good deal less. I've been collecting them and I like to pay around $250 for a used one of unknown shape.
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My first choice always would be a Plymouth R10 G1 Overdrive. I feel the stock rear axle is a good design with standard off the shelf Timkin Tapered Roller bearings. However finding 3.73 or 3.54 ring and pinions new is difficult. Finding a 3.54 carrier from say a 55 or 56 DeSoto or Dodge V8 with automatic is much easier. Back to the Overdrive All the gearbox parts are the same as a 3 speed, except for the Overdrive parts and they are nearly all the same as the 11 other makes of cars that used the B-W R10. So parts are not that hard to find and while a R10-G1 ( the MoPar version ) might be priced pretty high others are much cheaper and you can harvest them for parts. So taking an Overdrive and rebuilding it is not out of the question. On the road the Overdrive transmission performs just like the 3 speed you already have, except when you get up to cruising speed it automatically shifts into another gear dropping engine rpm by 30%. A 55 mph car suddenly becomes a 70 mph car with no performance loss in the lower gears. If you change rear axle gears to get higher hiway speeds you will lose acceleration. It’s that extra gear that makes it worth the effort. It should also be mentioned that if you’d like a closer ratio transmission you can install a 1940 second gear and cluster gear to raise second gear. Since the 3 speed Overdrive transmission is a Plymouth, it will fit with no modification. I’ve done it.
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Kencombs is right about the design. As far as keyed tapered axles are concerned, you do know they were used on midgets, Indy cars and are still used for land speed record cars. Yes you need a good Hub Puller and the knowledge of how to use one properly ( there is a technique for keys even with pullers ). For some of us one more tool is the charm of the thing! As some of us know there is a recurrent thread "Show us your tools". What I don't get is why anyone would swap to the axles that are most commonly used. Those have the differential carrier built integrally. Meaning if you want to do any repair work or change ratios, you either pull the complete axle or you work on it under the car. No thanks! At least with the stock axle you can pull the third member and repair it on the bench or change it for one with the ratio you want. As far as U-Joints and drive shafts go, if you don't like the stock one, change it. You don't have to change the whole axle to get Spicer U-Joints! Other MoPar cars of 40s & 50s had them AND they used the same axle. There's driveline shops everywhere that will be happy to make you anything you want. The other objection is the brakes. Another tool for your toolbox. I have seen home made tools and cheapie tools available, so I don't think that argument holds much water. The real challenge is to understanding how to make the Lockheed brakes work properly and then do it. If you can't be bothered then why are you driving an Antique Car? Same with the parking brake. The most popular axles for hot rods are the Ford 9 inch ( very strong but has considerable parasitic drag ), the Dana 44 ( integral differential carrier ) and the MoPar 8 3/4. The MoPar axle is strong has lots of ratios and limited slip differentials. It has a removable third member for easy service and ratio changes. It is the same design as the stock axle but has a 1/2 inch larger ring gear so it is stronger for the heavy horse power later V8s. "But I want performance!" Guess what? An axle does not make horse power! Engines make horse power. Bigger stronger axles can take away horse power and they do not add it. Considering these factors there's nothing to be gained by changing the rear axle. If you can generate enough power with a flathead to break the stock axle...well I'd like to see that!
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Electric Wipers for '51 Plymouth? - Going 12 volt
Loren replied to Bob Riding's topic in P15-D24 Forum
No generally they are a resister type. The one you showed is a step up type. You have to mount it in a spot which has no chance of anything combustable touching it because they make a lot of heat. As I recall there's four levels of Windshield Wipers, Vacuum, Vacuum with a dual chamber fuel pump, single speed 6 volt and 2 speed 6 volt electric. The parts book isn't a lot of help. It shows one speed and two speed motors for 1951-52 Plymouth or Dodge and they seem to have two suppliers with variations based on where the car was made. What a mess! I think I'll stay with my vacuum wipers and add a dual chamber fuel pump, that seems to be a whole lot simpler and cheaper. There were electric vacuum pumps back in the day for wipers. The aftermarket pumps today are designed to produce enough vacuum for power brakes so they are over kill and pricey. Another way to supply vacuum would be an alternator driven pump as used on diesels for power brakes. If you are going to change to an alternator anyway that option has merit. The last one I bought came from eBay at a reasonable price.- 16 replies
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Yes the push/pull movement is not good. Once fully assembled you can really see just a little movement yields a lot of slop in the steering wheel before there’s any movement in the pitman arm. Going down the road you’d have a real see saw battle to keep the car going straight. So you want it with some preload on the bearings. With the sector removed you should feel a very slight drag on the wheel. Lastly, the sector engagement with the worm should be left at the factory setting. This adjustment can be used to take up wear in the gears BUT and it’s a big but, if you get in tight in the center, it will be really tight on the on the right or left. ( as the worm wears in the center ) Thus I’d leave it alone. You would not want the steering to lock at right or left.