Stovebolt distributor

[47heaven]

A couple years ago I bought one of these from Stovebolt. Since then, I have misplaced the paper showing the timing and adjustment specs. Does anyone have a copy of their's that they could scan and post or email? I think that this may be attributing to my heating problem...since the whole cooling system has been redone and gone over.

Thanks,

Darin

[jd52cranbrook]

Hope this works, let me know if you need them emailed.

[47heaven]

Hope this works, let me know if you need them emailed.

That's it JD...I sent you an email. Thanks!

[Normspeed]

Hiya Darin, one other thing keeps nagging at me about the heating problem (along with an expansion plug or two blowing out on the freeway). I know you've had the cooling system checked and I'm not questioning your mechanic, but I think Don Coatney mentioned this too. Sorry if I'm being redundant. Sorry if I'm being redun...oops.

Your replacement motor was from a D24 I think. That's an external bypass cooling system including the head and block. But I recall seeing an internal bypass thermostat housing on the head, probably from the 56 model flathead you took out. Not sure which motor the water pump came from.

I think the wrong setup could affect both running temp as well as pressure in the water jacket under high rpms ( blown freeze plugs) unless the water pump rear plate is the right one for the bypass setup and thermostat housing and all that.

Just tossing it out there, but I may be all wet:rolleyes: Maybe Don C can chime in when he hits a wi-fi hotspot in his travels.

PS, I have a 12v timing light and a tach if you want to stop by and turn a wrench. Norm's Speed Shop will be relocating to NM soon.

[47heaven]

Hi Norm-

What I have is this:

D24 engine block

P26 crank and head

I believe the mechanic had put the thermostat housing from the P26 back on the car because it went with the P26 head. I have no idea if that was the right housing to begin with, but it's what was on the car when I got it. I'm trying to find the posting that goes back to that discussion, but not having a lot of luck. I recall it was when I posted pics of the my engine after the rebuild last summer. I guess I need to know how the housing would be a contributor to the heating? Anyway, I've posted another pic of the engine so anyone can see if what Norm is saying makes any sense to anyone because it's not really making sense to me. Anyone can feel free to chime in with their opinions.

[Normspeed]

Today Darin and I worked on the timing a bit and took another look at the head, thermostat housing and water pump. I retarded the timing on the Langdons HEI distrib about 4-6 degrees from where it had been previously set. Took it up in the foothills for a good hot day uphill test drive. Runs beautiful, a little less low end in high gear than I expected. Maybe the retarded timing...?

The temp varied from 190 to 200 on the climb. Never hit boilover, but when we got to the top it stalled a couple times at idle and didn't want to restart. After we had lunch and the motor cooled, it started and cleared tight up. Fuel system just hot from the climb I think.

As a test for what might be causing his rig to run a bit warm, after we returned from the lunch run we've temporarily removed the 160 degree thermostat. Also replaced the slightly kinked upper hose.

Here's a pic of the cooling system layout. It's a late 40s Dodge 230 block, a 56 Plymouth head with the bump on the front, internal bypass type 56 plym thermostat housing, and a replacement style water pump with a provision for an external bypass hookup (threaded holes on top flange). Don't know about the rear plate on the water pump, don't wanna take it off:D.

My question, do you guys see anything here that might produce high running temps after warmup?

Would it be a good idea to change the thermostat housing and add the part to the water pump and make it an external bypass?

[jd52cranbrook]

My opinion is Langdon is way off on setting the timing so far advanced as his instructions state. I run 5 degrees with the vacuum on and ran fine.

However mine is the Edgy head, and not a good comparison, but it would get warm going distance up hill. I really think your issues is the nature of the block. I do have a three row radiator in, and good shroud also.

Others would know, but there is a limit number to maximum advance that is good. That's what I want to find out when I get my engine back in.

[jd52cranbrook]

Also I see a true pressure radiator cap installed. Does it have a recovery tank also? If so, I'd check to see if working properly. What is the lb setting on the cap?

[daddyo23]

I have a slight warming problem, too. The "Old Mopar Guru" around here says he doesn't put thermostats in. He says that they will run warm enough without them and you only need them to heat water for the heater in cold weather. He told me to pull mine, I'm not going to drive it in the winter. Make sense? The water doesn't get as warm, but he says the oil and metal will warm up just fine. Is he getting senile:eek: , or does that make sense?

Wayne P.

[martybose]

I have run mine with no thermostat and no bypass for a year or so. it warms up fine and holds at about 180 for me. My mechanic thinks I need to put a little restriction where the thermostat used to be, so when it goes back together this time I took a later model thermostat, basically gutted it, and then JB welded the base of the thermostat into the housing.

Marty

[47heaven]

Also I see a true pressure radiator cap installed. Does it have a recovery tank also? If so, I'd check to see if working properly. What is the lb setting on the cap?

Well, as I just stated in another post, we took the theromstat out and also added a wetting agent sort of like Water Wetter. I'm going to test how warm the car gets today while it's warm out. There is a 7 lb pressure cap on there and no recovery tank. I was told that it's okay to use that kind of cap, since I couldn't find a no pressure one at the time.

[jd52cranbrook]

I am also running 7 lbs. I use a recovery tank. I think you are good as long as you check the level before a run. I was amazed how water got pushed into the recovery tank when getting hot, then almost suck it dry when cooling down. I had to put a extra large tank just so it would not get pushed out and sucked dry.

[47heaven]

I am also running 7 lbs. I use a recovery tank. I think you are good as long as you check the level before a run. I was amazed how water got pushed into the recovery tank when getting hot, then almost suck it dry when cooling down. I had to put a extra large tank just so it would not get pushed out and sucked dry.

I was going to put in a recovery tank too, but I've been told it's not necessary. You are right about the anti-feeze spurting out. You would think at what anti-freeze costs that you'd want to recover it. I'm still debating whether to do that or not, but I really can't see any room to put the recovery without it getting hit by the fan blades.

[jd52cranbrook]

I moved my battery to the trunk. Have the tank sitting in its place. Actually it is sitting half above and half below that ledge. I think mine is 3 1/2 inch wide by about 18 inches deep. I cut a hole through the ledge with a hole saw. There is lots of room the wheel well if you want to go that way. I am not sure of your car, but mine is far from stock so no need to keep correct on it.

[Normspeed]

Darin, glad you stopped over. Had a fun day. If we get the running temp down to your liking, I'd like to try bringing the timing back up to where it was before and seeing if it has more grunt going up the hill.

I saw two sizes of recovery tank kits at Kragen. The smaller one was only around $10. They're made of the modern white plastic material, with brackets and tubing. I made mine from an old canteen, just to pass tech inspection ath the antique nats, but I don't see a real need for one. When you fill the rad and drive the car, it will spew out any excess coolant on the first few heating/cooling cycles. Then it finds its ideal hot running level and stops spewing.

With the P15 radiator, the overflow is not connected to the radiator cap, it's an independent fitting and metal tube at the top center of the rad tank. You could run any pressure cap, and the overflow will still vent at zero PSI.

But then, I've been wrong before...

[jd52cranbrook]

With the P15 radiator, the overflow is not connected to the radiator cap, it's an independent fitting and metal tube at the top center of the rad tank. You could run any pressure cap, and the overflow will still vent at zero PSI.

But then, I've been wrong before...

ahh,, didnt realize that. all of it, you being wrong???????

[Don Coatney]

I had the unique displeasure of meeting Mister Stovebolt Tom Langdon in Detroit this past weekend. I made an attempt to discuss some of the timing problems I have heard about with his Mopar HEI conversion distributors. I was telling him about what Marty has done to make his engine run when Mr. Langdon interrupted me in mid sentence and told me in no uncertain terms that he is an “engineer”. And that anyone who has a problem with his equipment should call him. He had no interest in what I was telling him and promptly told me that he has all the answers and nobody on the Internet knows what they are talking about. I have done business with him on a couple of items in the past but I will never do business with him again. I do not have all the answers but I don’t like to be talked down to.

[jd52cranbrook]

I felt the same as you Don when I last talked with Tom over the phone looking for smaller jets for the carbs.

For a person who wont even listen to other's ideas, well, you hit the nail on the head.

[47heaven]

I had the unique displeasure of meeting Mister Stovebolt Tom Langdon in Detroit this past weekend. I made an attempt to discuss some of the timing problems I have heard about with his Mopar HEI conversion distributors. I was telling him about what Marty has done to make his engine run when Mr. Langdon interrupted me in mid sentence and told me in no uncertain terms that he is an “engineer”. And that anyone who has a problem with his equipment should call him. He had no interest in what I was telling him and promptly told me that he has all the answers and nobody on the Internet knows what they are talking about. I have done business with him on a couple of items in the past but I will never do business with him again. I do not have all the answers but I don’t like to be talked down to.

Sounds like he and AB may be related.

[Normspeed]

Don, when you get a minute, how about going up about 14 posts in this thread where I describe Darin's therm housing, head and block, and let us know your thoughts?

[Don Coatney]

Hiya Darin, one other thing keeps nagging at me about the heating problem (along with an expansion plug or two blowing out on the freeway). I know you've had the cooling system checked and I'm not questioning your mechanic, but I think Don Coatney mentioned this too. Sorry if I'm being redundant. Sorry if I'm being redun...oops.

Your replacement motor was from a D24 I think. That's an external bypass cooling system including the head and block. But I recall seeing an internal bypass thermostat housing on the head, probably from the 56 model flathead you took out. Not sure which motor the water pump came from.

I think the wrong setup could affect both running temp as well as pressure in the water jacket under high rpms ( blown freeze plugs) unless the water pump rear plate is the right one for the bypass setup and thermostat housing and all that.

Just tossing it out there, but I may be all wet:rolleyes: Maybe Don C can chime in when he hits a wi-fi hotspot in his travels.

PS, I have a 12v timing light and a tach if you want to stop by and turn a wrench. Norm's Speed Shop will be relocating to NM soon.

Follow this link.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=6848&highlight=darin+freeze

[BeBop138]

I have had some doubts about Langdons HEI---I have tried to time it and have discovered that the mechanical tends to jump a 10 degree sweep at higher RPM. The timing marks move all over the wheel. When you hook up the vacumm line it smooths out, but even at that your mechanical is fighting the vacumm. I have talked to Tom and he said he would take it back---I emailed him to confirm and never recievrd a reply. So I had a buddy make one out of a Chev in-line 250 six. We turned the shaft down so it clears the piston skirts and ground a little of the spade end to fit the pump. This was the problem with Toms---the shaft end to pump has to much slop--like taking a small end standard srcew driver and trying to turn a very large head screw. We also turned down the housing and used a clamp from a early stock dizzy and all works well. Anyone interested we may make some. There is recurving and total disasembly and looks very stock. The height from the block is about 9 1/2 inched. All specs are one degree off. All set up for the 265 engine.

[greg g]

But Tom is an engineer and everything should be thouroughly figured out. Chevy distributors advance works almost opposite of MOPAR. The mechanical advance has a much steeper curve and the vacuum being on the manifold serves to retard the timing as the vacuum builds. The old drag racers trick of removing the vacuum tube and blocking the manifold port, allowed the the centrifigul to go to full advance which works well on the strip under WOT conditions. On the street it doesn't work well as there is nothig to temper the centrifigul effect of increased RPM. The ported vacuum of the MOPAR design anticipates the additional advance with the vacuum signal from the carb.

As long as you are set up to do some expirementing, why ot modify a /6 electronic system by swaping the drive tang from the old dist, and grabbing the whole electronic system from the donor car. Then at least you have Mopar parts following the mopar model and advance curves going in the right direction.

[jd52cranbrook]

Thats good info ty for that. Going to look into it.

[Normspeed]

Darin's car, with the Stovebolt HEI, sure does run nice and smooth.