Plym Rookie

[Ed Griffin]

Welcome neighbor. Just across the river from you in T county, TN. You found a great place to help you out with your project and make some good friends. Not to mention some of us are civil war buff's as Don said he was and Neil being a retired reanactor ( didnt know abt that). Don has some great letters of the time period if you ever want to read some interesting period stuff.

Do you still have your musket? How about you Niel, still have yours? Never made it into reanacting as I would have liked but have been to several. Another civil war buff, Ed

[Arkansawer]

Still have all my gear, including the musket and the double barrel shotgun. Every now and then some of us get together and do bushwackers. Thats alot of fun.

Niel, did you ever hear of the 7th Arkansas Company I, im gonna say between 94 and 98? We were one of the most feared confederate companies in reenactment. Today they are just a bunch of farbs.

Mom has done some research on the family and i had a great great uncle that faught for kentucky. He got wounded, swam across the mississippi river into missouri, hid out in a barn and sewn himself up with a button hook. Was listed as a deserter until he later returned to his company and finished the war. A button hook, could you even imagine.

[Niel Hoback]

Yes, I still have everything I need to form up. Except the energy.

By the nineties, I had already "retired" from running up hills with a ten pound musket and standing formation in the sun wearing dark blue wool. PIt was great fun, but not at this age. Not many hobbies where you get to run around and shoot at people.

Mopars are as much fun, but you get to sit down and ride.

[B-Watson]

Yup, I used that book for the info. Sometimes the figures vary in different sources but the book says 1951-52 there was a P22, Concord, and a P23 Cambridge and Cranbrook. I think the P23 designation for the Cranberry means it's a 52 not a 51.

There's a great Mopar info site, allpar.com. Lots of historical info on various years and models.

Models P22 (Concord) and P23 (Cambridge, Cranbrook) were built in both 1951 and 1952. This holds true for all 1951-52 Chrysler products, except the DeSoto FireDome V8 which was 1952 only.

Changes from 1951 to 1952 were miniscule -

Plymouth - revised hood ornament, hood emblem, trunk handle and nameplate, series nameplates, Belvedere two-toning.

Dodge - bottom panel in grille (1951- chrome, 1952- body colour), revised taillamp housings, side rear fender mouldings no longer touch taillamps.

DeSoto - block letters on hood in 1952, script in 1951, taillamps enlarged to house back up lamps, revised hood emblem, early DeLuxe/Custom have a 3rd style hood emblem.

Chrysler - taillamps enlarged to house back up lamps (except Imperial)

Serial numbers :

1951 P23-2 Cranbrook

Detroit - 12 635 001 to 12 906 467

Los Angeles - 25 112 001 to 25 125 247

San Leandro - 25 531 001 to 25 545 962

Evansville - 20 435 001 to 20 484 924

Windsor - 96 030 001 to 96 044 454

1952 P23-1 Cranbrook

Detroit - 12 906 701 to 13 066 238

Los Angeles - 25 125 301 to 25 134 190

San Leandro - 25 546 001 to 25 555 957

Evansville - 20 485 001 to 20 516 075

Windsor - 96 044 601 to 96 057 734

[oldmopar]

Models P22 (Concord) and P23 (Cambridge, Cranbrook) were built in both 1951 and 1952. This holds true for all 1951-52 Chrysler products, except the DeSoto FireDome V8 which was 1952 only.

Changes from 1951 to 1952 were miniscule -

Plymouth - revised hood ornament, hood emblem, trunk handle and nameplate, series nameplates, Belvedere two-toning.

Dodge - bottom panel in grille (1951- chrome, 1952- body colour), revised taillamp housings, side rear fender mouldings no longer touch taillamps.

DeSoto - block letters on hood in 1952, script in 1951, taillamps enlarged to house back up lamps, revised hood emblem, early DeLuxe/Custom have a 3rd style hood emblem.

Chrysler - taillamps enlarged to house back up lamps (except Imperial)

Serial numbers :

1951 P23-2 Cranbrook

Detroit - 12 635 001 to 12 906 467

Los Angeles - 25 112 001 to 25 125 247

San Leandro - 25 531 001 to 25 545 962

Evansville - 20 435 001 to 20 484 924

Windsor - 96 030 001 to 96 044 454

1952 P23-1 Cranbrook

Detroit - 12 906 701 to 13 066 238

Los Angeles - 25 125 301 to 25 134 190

San Leandro - 25 546 001 to 25 555 957

Evansville - 20 485 001 to 20 516 075

Windsor - 96 044 601 to 96 057 734

Add to the 52 Plymouth list plastic emergency brake handle, dash gauges have black numbers white background, no woodgrain on dash and no full trim around rear window meaning you need to remove rear window to replace headliner.

[Arkansawer]

Normspeed, thanks for the book reference, i just got it off of ebay for 14 dollars after shipping. Hopefully it will be of great use, thanks again.

Torrey

[dirty dan]

Good to see other Civil War buffs on here as well!

If y'all ever get down this way I'd love to take you to the Port Hudson battlefield (where Farragout tried to make a run to the Red river) just north of Baton Rouge. Port Hudson was (and still is) the longest siege in American military history. The troops held for 48 days without relief. They only surrendered after they learned that Vicksburg fell to Grant.

Also there are still plenty of Plantation homes still standing in this area.

[JerseyHarold]

I've been interested in these years of Plymouth since I was a little kid and have owned several of them and looked at lots of them. There were many subtle changes between the 1951 and 1952 Plymouth. Most were made to lower production costs.

In addition to what Ed (oldmopar) noted, some other changes were:

Vent window latches (screw type button in '51, plain in '52), front bumper (bracket eliminated in '52), gasket between windshield molding and dash gone in '52, wiring harness comes thru front of firewall in 1951 and thru side in 1952, front door courtesy light switch separate in '51 and built into door hinge screw in 1952.

[Arkansawer]

Yeah going by those numbers it looks like a 53. But going by the photos and all of the photos that ive looked at, its a 51-52. Especially the taillights, the 53 is verticle rectangle, and 51-52 are horizontal rectangles.

And havent looked at the engine number yet.

[Normspeed]

That sure isn't a 53 body, but you know, 53 was the car that almost didn't get built, due to the Korean War just wrapping up. Maybe Evansville started production on some P23 bodied P24s. Never heard of that but these outfits weren't prone to tossing out perfectly good cars. The engine number might be a clue, if it's still the original engine.

[Arkansawer]

i will try and get the engine number tomorrow.

but yeah its not a 53 body, but the vehicle number shows it to be. Now the confusion begins lol.

[B-Watson]

That sure isn't a 53 body, but you know, 53 was the car that almost didn't get built, due to the Korean War just wrapping up. Maybe Evansville started production on some P23 bodied P24s. Never heard of that but these outfits weren't prone to tossing out perfectly good cars. The engine number might be a clue, if it's still the original engine.

Serial Number 206-14222

Body Number 106-E-21918

The Evansville serial numbers for 1953, which include both Cambridge and Cranbrook, ran from 20 520 001 to 20 657 000, for a total of 137,000.

The number 20 614 222 is the 94,222nd car built, which is rather late in the model year to be using anything leftover from 1952.

I suspect someone has placed a 1953 tag on the car as the original 1952 went astray. The serial number is also stamped on the chassis frame, I believe, right side of the car, just ahead of the forward rear spring hanger.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[Normspeed]

Well, as a seasoned bureaucrat, I'd say, if I already got it through DMV and had the pink, I wouldn't look too hard at it.

[Arkansawer]

Havent even contacted dmv yet or worried about a pink. Ill worry about that later on. Its arkansas, its not hard to get a title, so thats the least of the worries. Ill get it running, and then ill worry about a title.

The serial plate may have been replaced, but i dunno. Everything looks original, and its for sure a 52 body without any doubt.

[Tony Cipponeri]

Hi Arkansawer, I am a Civil War buff also, never did any reacting though. I got into Cowboy Action Shooting, awhile back, and had a lot of fun. My daughter lives in Oklahoma, but she works in Fort Smith. There is a lot of history there, in Fort Smith. Welcome to the forum, you will love it here. Tony C

[Young Ed]

OK heres stuff to check. Some of these are missing from your pictures but maybe you have them elsewhere or can see in the dirt what they used to look like.

51 has square is hood medalion and metal plymouth name plate below that with plastic inserted letters. 52 has round medalion and stamped in letters.

51 hood ornament kinda looks like an airplane(supposed to be a ship with waves I believe) and 52 is more ship like

51 has block letter nameplates on the fenders and 52 has script.

51 has a license plate bracket and 52 has 2 slots in the front bumper

as mentioned the changes to the dash

51 trunk has a seperate license plate light and a plymouth script further up the trunk lid. 52 has these 2 incorporated into 1 unit and the holes for the license plate light/ornament are different.

51 trunk shuts by closing and then returning the handle to closed position. 52s are push to shut.

51 rocker mouldings connect to the stone guards and on 52s they are 2 seperate pieces

[Arkansawer]

on the dash panel, all of the gauges are white with black letters/numbers. Except for the speedo, its black with white numbers. Looking at the hood, it looks like the emblem was round at the top and then had wings. The trunk only has three holes above the plate, there are no other holes in the trunk so im going to assume its the one piece light/name.

[Arkansawer]

Here is some better pics that will enlarge for ya.

[Young Ed]

Those are the holes for a 52 trunk emblem. The hood thing you mention is that the hood ornament or the medalion that goes below it? The medalions both have "wings" but one is round and one is pretty much square. Its the hood ornament itself that had wings in 51 only. Here are some pics to help. Both are 51s actually but the gold one with the blueish hood has a 52 hood.

[Arkansawer]

The little area where the rust isnt as bad, is where the medallion was. It looks more round like the 52. The very first pic i put up will enlarge for ya and you can kinda see the roundness of missing surface rust, lol.

Im going down right now to try and get the engine number. Ill post it when i get back.

[Arkansawer]

Alright, Engine Number is: P23*945352.

So with the P23, we at least know its a 52. So whats the other numbers tell me?

[Young Ed]

Nope P23 engines are 51-52. Because of the korean war the 52s got lumped together with the 51s. Someone said the 53 almost didnt get built but I believe it was the 52s that really almost didnt get built to due Chrylser still having military contracts.

[oldmopar]

From what I see the car is a 52 and maybe someone used a 53 for a title. attached is the id plate from my 52 so you have something to compare serial plates with.

Ed

[Arkansawer]

yeah the plate looks identical. Of course different numbers, but the round plate is what mine looks like.

So its a 52 with a 53 number plate.

[oldmopar]

is it riveted on sometime when people swap id plates they use screws