P15 LED Brake Light

[Tony_Urwin]

Those guys who make the LEd taillights (the ones Don Coatney has on his car) visited me last week to check the fit on their brake light. They have made one for the sedans and recently they created a new base to fit the P15coupe.

Well, they shipped the coupe brake light to a business coupe owner, and SUPPOSEDLY it fit. However, the same light does not fit my P15 Club Coupe. My parts book only lists two part numbers for the brake light (coupe and sedan). So it is a mystery why their coupe light would fit a business coupe and not my club coupe.

Anyone know if the business coupe has a different brake light than the club coupe?

BTW, they are also looking to reproduce the high beam indicator with the turn signal arrows. They are quite generous with anyone who can help (they gave me a set of their taillights for my assistance). If you have that rare part, they would be very interested in talking to you.

[Norm's Coupe]

Tony,

If that business coupe owner is someone who is particular about how his car looks, he probably won't be happy. If that light didn't fit your club coupe, it won't fit the business coupe any better. There are only two types of bezels listed in the parts book. The one marked coupe fits the business coupe, club coupe and convertible because the trunk decks are also the same.

There is no high beam indicator light with the arrows that fit the P15's. They only came on the Chrysler, DeSoto or Dodge. Not sure which one now. David Maxwell had one and it wouldn't fit his P15 without some type of modification. Think he said it was too big or something like that under the dash. If someone has one in his P15, they either modified the light or the dash to make it fit.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I was not aware of the light bezel being different...however the deck lid for the Sedan, Coupe, Convertible and Business Coupe are all different..4 part numbers..with the 2 and 4 door interchangable. I was looking forward to the business coupe repo part from them being a good fit as i recently acquire a business coupe myself...

I believe that Bob T. has a complete parts manual for this and then there is Chet's online copy...maybe I can check that out late to see if there is a difference...

[Plymouthy Adams]

Norn..on the indicator..the one on the Dodge, Chrysler Desoto has a straight shaft that attaches to the speedo head. This shaft is 90 degrees to the face..the one for the Plymouth is angled..being cast aluminum in design..cutting and angling this may work but at best you lose the chrome in the process...as they are hard to come across for either car..cannot see ruining one...it is so much easier to insert small LED's on the Plymouth indicator...

[Norm's Coupe]

Tim,

I also have the complete original parts manual for the P15, not a reprint. Thats where I get my info on this stuff. Even have an original blueprint of the Woody with all the wood sections listed on it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Then it is settled and I need look no further..I also knew of only the coupe and sedan style...I have an excellent sedan bezel I will gladly trade to anyone who accidently got a Coupe by mistake if in like condition.

[Norm's Coupe]

Norn..on the indicator..the one on the Dodge, Chrysler Desoto has a straight shaft that attaches to the speedo head. This shaft is 90 degrees to the face..the one for the Plymouth is angled..being cast aluminum in design..cutting and angling this may work but at best you lose the chrome in the process...as they are hard to come across for either car..cannot see ruining one...it is so much easier to insert small LED's on the Plymouth indicator...

Tim,

Thanks, I had forgotten what David said as to the reason they won't fit. Just remembered it wouldn't fit without modifications. I was looking for one myself a few years ago until I found out they wouldn't fit. Then I just forgot about the whole thing.

[martybose]

(snip) Well, they shipped the coupe brake light to a business coupe owner, and SUPPOSEDLY it fit. However, the same light does not fit my P15 Club Coupe. Anyone know if the business coupe has a different brake light than the club coupe?

There's no supposedly about it; it was my business coupe, and it fit fine. I did document an error in their main casting regarding the angle of the ridge line, but the base fit my car perfectly.

Marty

[Plymouthy Adams]

now would be the time to ask the question..was either of the trunk panels ever subjected to body repair? Was the donor unit an unaltered piece?

[Norm's Coupe]

Marty,

We just had another thread about the two bezels not long ago. Back then (I think it was Don Coatney) who said they made a new base (or gasket) to make the sedan bezel fit the coupes and convertibles. That's probably why the actual bezel lines don't match up with the coupe bezel, but still fits your coupe with the added/different base/gasket.

As far as I'm concerned as long as it looks good its all that counts. However, some eagle eye judge at an all original show would probably knock off points. Of course that would probably happen anyway because it's an LED light, and 12 volt to boot.

Tony's P15 isn't all original either. However, he was probably just saying it doesn't fit because of the actual bezel by itself. Will be interesting if Tony said why he didn't feel it fit his club coupe.

[martybose]

Just checked my parts book, and it lists only 2 different "shell, stop lamp assembly";

1148 895 for the 3 passenger coupe (aka business coupe), the club coupe and the convertible coupe

1148 894 for the 4 door sedan, the twn. sedan (?), the 2 door sedan and the utility 2 door sedan.

The picture of the 2 dr sedan has the same fastback body line as the 4 door sedan, while both the 3 and 5 passenger coupes have a more vertical rear window and a distinct separate trunk line.

Also, here's a picture of the dash turn signal indicator that I picked up a while back; apparently it is a Dodge unit.

Marty

[martybose]

Marty' date='

We just had another thread about the two bezels not long ago. Back then (I think it was Don Coatney) who said they made a new base (or gasket) to make the sedan bezel fit the coupes and convertibles. That's probably why the actual bezel lines don't match up with the coupe bezel, but still fits your coupe with the added/different base/gasket.

[/quote']

Norm,

The problem was more subtle than that. On the original bezel the horizontal ridge on the two wings isn't perfectly horizontal, it has a slight upward angle. The casting from Technostalgia had a slight downward angle; it actually looked like the two sides of the wings were switched. The end result was the outside corner of the wings was lower than the original by maybe 3/4". It was obvious on my car because it had been repainted once by masking around the original bezel.

I checked with Don about this, and when he checked his photos he could see the difference; it hadn't been obvious on his car because his was repainted correctly, with the stoplight off of the trunk.

Marty

[BobT-47P15]

That's right......there are only two brake light housings. Coupe & Sedan.

The convertible uses the business coupe trunk lid, not the two seat coupe.

(strange but true)

Regarding the turn signal indicator with arrows.....has anyone checked to

see if the hole in the dash is larger on the cars that came equipped with

those arrows? Perhaps one would have to enlarge the dash opening just

a bit for a P15. And.......is there adequate space for the bulb holders on

a Plymouth?

[Captain Neon]

That dash turn signal/headlight indicator unit is a beast. I'm willing to hazard a bet that Technostalgia can reduce the business portion small enough w/ LED that P15 owners could give serious thought to retrofitting it to their P15s. It's not something I would be interested in, but it does appear to offer a cleaner look than the typical clunky aftermarket boxes most of have strapped to our steering column.

A reproduced turn signal indicator and a small toggle switch on the column would be very discrete.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Bob..when Lou and I were going through the book we came up with four trunk lid numbers...this is from the Hollanders ....not the factory book though..

[Don Coatney]

I checked with Don about this, and when he checked his photos he could see the difference; it hadn't been obvious on his car because his was repainted correctly, with the stoplight off of the trunk.

Marty

Not the case on my car Marty. The guy who painted my car before

I bought it did not remove any chrome work. There is brown paint

under all my lights. But the new brake and tail light bezels cover

it well.

Todd at Technostoliga contacted me about the turn signal indicator

a few weeks back. I also told him that this was not a Plymouth thing

but a Desoto and Crashler thing. I was not aware that dash

modifications were required to install the indicator.

[Norm's Coupe]

Maybe we should start another thread about the dash indicator. David Maxwell might not look at this subject. I know he had one of those when he was doing his P15 and was saying it wouldn't fit because............. Since he did try it (and not sure if he succeeded anymore) he can shed some light on exactly what would have to be done to make it fit.

As far as I can tell Don's lights look okay in the pictures. Maybe it's just on the coupe that it looks a little off. That said, even if you have an original trim part like that re chromed, it will always be a little smaller when you get it back. Thats because they have to clean it, sand it, grind it to get the base smooth before re chroming. Of course when you do all that, you are also removing some of the metal making the part a little smaller. Most of the time if its done well with a decent part to begin with, that small amount thats taken off is hardly noticeable unless you really look close.

Tim,

I can't explain why Hollanders list the trunk lids that way. However, in the P15 parts book it list the parts. Then next to the part name and number it shows columns for each model P15. Then it has a mark in the column for the models that the part fits. If there is no mark in the column, it means that part doesn't fit that model. I have a hollanders for those years but never looked for those parts in there. I primarily use it for mechanical parts interchanges.

[Tony_Urwin]

My Master Parts List for 1936-1948 Plymouths only (No Chrysler or DeSoto) shows two part numbers for the P15 Head Lamp Beam Indicator. Available with or W/O Directional Lamp Indicator.

1163840 Without

1163876 With

It even shows a picture of the one with the arrows. That leads me to believe that it was a Plymouth option as well, albeit a rare one.

The same book only shows two Stop Lamp shells for the P15.

[Tony_Urwin]

P.S. My trunk lid is a near pristine lid, it is even perfectly rust free along the bottom edge. No sign of any metal bumping at all. The LED guys made paper templates of the trunklid and seemed to think that the curves were different than the business coupe.

[Norm's Coupe]

Tony,

Does the book show a picture of the front and back? If it does maybe we could see the difference between the Dodge and Plymouth indicator light.

[Tony_Urwin]

The book lists indicators with turn signal lights from 1940 on throught 1948. The pictures of both do not look like P15 parts however. Maybe the pictures are from the earlier years. I could scan the pictures later, but I have to run right now.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I was first informed by the recycle yard that the Hollanders listed 4 different deck lids as I was trying to locate a lid ..then while at Loumans I mentioned I thought the convertible and Bs Cp were the same..we looked in is book..again 4 units...it is this conflicting data that adds confusion along the way

[martybose]

I was first informed by the recycle yard that the Hollanders listed 4 different deck lids as I was trying to locate a lid ..then while at Loumans I mentioned I thought the convertible and Bs Cp were the same..we looked in is book..again 4 units...it is this conflicting data that adds confusion along the way

My parts book shows multiple deck lids, but only two different stop light assemblies. So apparently there are only two different curvatures in the area where the stoplight mounts, and the other differences are elsewhere.

My deck lid is all original with no damage or repair evident. The Technostalgia prototype stoplight matched the curvature of my OEM stoplight, and I don't have any clue as to why it shouldn't have fit Tony's Club Coupe the same way, as the parts book would seem to indicate that the two body types use the same assembly.

Marty, still clueless after all of these years ...........

[Ed Griffin]

Have they said if they ever plan to make any of their tail lights for a Dodge?!

[Don Coatney]

Have they said if they ever plan to make any of their tail lights for a Dodge?!

Fast Eddie;

None at this time.