New Member, well sort of.

[Rex]

Hi all, settle in for a longish read if you can be bothered. I’m a long-time reader of the site second time posting. Okay, as I said in my original post some years ago, I’ve inherited a 1947 Dodge D25C, well 47 might be questionable, 47 was the first time it was road registered in the state of Victoria, Australia purchased new by the original owner. My father purchased it in 1953 and it has been in the family ever since. From about the late 50’s it has been stored in various sheds due to a mechanical issue that he never got around to resolving. Anyway, long story short I have finally trucked it to Perth on the West Coast of Australia.

 

The restoration has started, the plan is to restore it to original condition with a few concessions like 12-volt conversion, I would stick to 6-volt but I’m a realist, 3 core aluminum radiator from Champion, gets hot in Western Australia, and an alternator. Now seeing this site and the people on it are the source of all knowledge pertaining to Dodge vehicles, I have a few questions.

 

This is the engine number D25C10642C, serial number 9732204, with another number on the firewall D25CS-585. I have tried to identify the exact engine type and capacity so if anyone can identify it. The engine has been rebuilt but I think the fuel pump isn’t the right one, it’s an AC-1522995 and from what I can source this was off a much earlier model from the late 30’s, also the carby is a Marvel Schebler (Borg Warner) Mod-102802 which again I don’t think was correct for the car, I presume it would have been originally fitted with a Carter, but maybe after the war they put anything that was available on them to ship to Australia.

 

So, any suggestions for what fuel pump (e.g. Andy Bernbaum site) and what Carby should be on it. I know Andy Dodge (Aust) suggests a single barrel Stromberg from a 74/76 model HJ Holden (GMH – Aust). Apart from that nothing is missing from the car, some rust to cut out in the door sills and drivers and passengers floor pan but nothing drastic.

Will put a new wiring loom in plus need to replace all weatherstripping, interior and paint etc, ect, ect. I think I’ve inherited a money pit, but hours of entertainment ?. Also looking for the chrome door sill trims, any suggestions? Will add photos soon, when I can get around the 3Mb limit, how do you post photos greater than 3Mb total? 

 

There might be, well there will be more questions in the future. Thanks in advance. Cheers Rex.

[Rex]

Photos.

[SteveR]

I believe that a D25C engine is Canadian built 230 ci in engine. I believe they had 25" head length. A 1947 D25 American engine would have been 23"

[DonaldSmith]

Is that a Richards made-in-Australia body?  I think the curved bottom of the trunk lid gives it away. And both hinges on the back door are exposed.  Also, a D25 is the venerable "Plodge",  Special Dodge grille and Dodge badges, on a Plymouth doghouse.  

[SteveR]

12 hours ago, Rex said:

o, any suggestions for what fuel pump (e.g. Andy Bernbaum site)

Best to check Andy Bernbaums shipping costs. To the UK they charge a flat rate of $65 regardless of what you buy. A $5 part could cost you $70 with shipping. Also for any returned parts they charge you a 20% restocking charge and if it is over 30 days they only give a store credit. Here is what they sent me "We do usually allow some leeway for returns, especially with int'l orders and  extend it a few months for our customers" They lost my first order and waited 3 months, then I had to wait 1 month for the reorder. Thankfully they did make a check out for what I returned minus the 20% restocking charge.

[Rex]

Hi Donald, yes, it is a TJ Richards Dodge, interesting observation about the curved trunk lid and the exposed hinges on the rear doors not sure I like the idea of driving around in the Plodge ?.

 

Hi SteveR, yes, the D25C was Canadian imported to Adelaide, South Australia where TJ Richards completed the build. It's the tyranny of distance that's the problem, there are limited parts available for the Dodge in Australia compared to everything for them being available in the US. Shipping costs are high and the low Australian dollar against the US dollar doesn't help. At least the Pound is stronger against the US dollar. That's one of the reasons I need to be sure of the engine type/size before ordering any parts from the US, from either Andy Bernbaum or MoparPro.

 

Cheer Rex

[maok]

Have you considered www.autosurplus.com.au in Melbourne for some of the spares you need?

 

 

[andyd]

O/k........apologies for delay in reply....have been playing hotrodder at the 25th Australian Street Rod nationals in Sydney........as for a carby..any single barrel Stromberg from a mid 60's Holden, ie 161/179/186/202 up to the early 70's HQ series Holden would be o/k, I would think one from a 202 HQ would be perfect.......now to find out what engine you have........measure the cylinder head.......if 23 inches long its a Plymouth/Dodge engine 201/217 or 230(unusual)  BUT if 25 inches long then its a DeSoto/Chrysler based engine of 218/228 or 250( again not used in Oz till the mid 50's)..........to be absolutely certain...........remove the spark plugs, unscrew the small pipe bung on the top of the cylinder head above where cylinder # 6 lives and insert a 15" LONG piece of welding or brazing wire until it touches the top of the piston then SLOWLY turn the crank and measure the up & down movement of the piston..............the Oz 1946-53 Workshop manual has the 46-48 D25 with a stroke of 4 & 1/16th  and 3 & 3/38th bore giving 218 cubes........the 1953 228 cube engine has the 4 & 1/4 stroke, note that if its 23" long then its definately the Dodge/Plymouth engine and if 25" long then the DeSoto/Chrysler engine...........if it has the letters "KEW" stamped into the start of the engine number on the Oz passenger side front edge of the block then it "should" also be the 25" engine ............

Also an easy way to tell the T J Richards 1939 to 1948 body shell in the exposed door hinge on front & back doors as well as the tapered shape of the boot or trunk lid.........another give away is that the inside door handles and winders SHOULD have the large, 5/8th diameter splined attachement which is same as the Oz FX-FJ Holdens and a few other Oz cars......these handles are unique to Oz cars....see pic of my 1940 Dodge with the same bootlid and exposed hinges.........note that the front door 1/4 window rubber seals are different onn the Oz cars to those used in the US cars............and YOU DO NOT have a plodge.........you have a DODGE.........end of story......albeit a different one to the common herd that the Yanks have........lol.........give me a call anytime if you want more info...have had my car since 1971.......52 yrs......I'm in NSW, South Grafton.......02 6642 5963..........Andy Douglas      

[Rex]

Hi Maok thanks for the seller details, their price point is a bit higher on a couple of things that I need, even with the current exchange rate, but at least they're in the right hemisphere.

 

Hi Andy, thanks for the information will check out the engine length, number on the block and the stroke. So, I am presuming the bore and stud pattern for a Stromberg carby off a HQ/HJ 202 match that of the Dodge, and is there any requirement to re-jet?  And yes, the door and window winder handles are splined.

 

Don't worry will definitely give you a call when I get stuck on anything.

 

And the one thing I like about working on a car of this age is that every bolt, nut and screw fights to the very last thread or even better still they just snap off ?. It becomes a test in self-control.

 

Cheers

Rex

[andyd]

Rex......and every nut & bolt is Imperial/SAE no metric crap ..as for the Holden Strombereg..there are 2 different sized lower Stromberg bases......the shorter between the bolt holes is I think from the Holden grey engine, or maybe into the early 60's but from my understanding the wider base is from the HD/HR onwards.........when I bought the 41 Plymouth Coupe I had it was supposedly an older restoration by someone in Victoria, an ex South African assembled Detroit built factory RHD car when I got it it had the Stromberg installed, as far as I remember it had the standard Holden jets.........went fine tho' I must admit that I installed a HEI distributor from Stovebolt Engineering in the USA....the best thing I did as the car was already 12 volt when I got it, before the HEI it took a few turns & pumping the gas pedal to get it started.........with the HEI, I could lean in thru the open window, turn the key & it started straight away(it had been rewired & had a late model ignition switch.......ran well, but only available as far as I know if the car is 12 volts......the attached pic shows the Holden carby, also after the HEI & Beehive oil filter install......I was going to install a 230 cube engine with an Edgy finned head, twin carb Offy intake & 2 Holden strombergs, split exhaust into a twin system, 1/2 race Waggott cam  and a 5speed Chev S10 overdrive but due to financial things I had to sell it........dumbest think I ever did ...lol.......the HEI & Beehive would have swapped onto the 230 which with the finned head would have had around a 9.0:1 compression & would have given the flathead Ford guys a run.......lol..........the engine ended up over in Perth, the car in Victoria.......10yrs ago.......still miss it......lol........I strongly suggest getting an Oz Workshop manual, Scientific Publications did one covering 1946-1953 which turn up on ebay regularly.........depending on what you need, Les Sonter 0407290340 in Sydney is a good source, also Jim Robinson "Dodge Parts" in Victoria 03 53454094 is good and I'd always check Restored Cars magazine.........andyd       

[Rex]

Hi Andy, that's a sweet looking ride and nice engine setup, the plan is to have the Dodge look standard on the outside and interior and the engine bay to a certain extent but to be as reliable as possible so it can be driven all day and for long distances. Hence the engine rebuild, the 3 core aluminium radiator, will convert to 12V, fit a HEI, and new wiring loom, etc, etc. Not sure how achievable it is to have a Dodge flathead six that reliable but that's the goal. Would like to fit an Offy intake with twin carbs but the cost may outweigh gains. Cheers Rex

[andyd]

Dunno if you know but a common trick over the years was to fit Holden intake manifolds to mopar 6's...........the intake from the Holden Grey or sideplate engine was used on the Dodge/Plymouth 23" engine and the intake from the Holden Red engine was used on the DeSoto/Chrysler 25" engine.'''''''''as the holden intakes are on the Oz passenger side using them on the Oz drivers side on Mopar side valve engine meant that the carby mounting angle was wrong but I've seen angled adaptors used to compensate for this ............the Holden intakes also require some work/fiddling to get the mounting studs sorted out but it was doable, albeit it did require some work..........I bought my Offy intake from Speedway Motors in the USA, it might be worth checking with them, also I've heard that Offy is still going so that might be worth a try and there is a place in the US called Patricks who deal in vintage speed equipement..........andyd   

[Rex]

Hi Andy, yes both Speedway Motors, Summit and White Owl Speed Equipment do an Offenhauser Dual Carburetor Intake Manifolds, Dodge, 230 L6 but are $US480.00 (Speedway Motors) so not the cheapest option, will have to go on the wish list. 

 

Also, putting together my parts build list, can anyone provide me with make, model of an HEI Distributor to suit the Dodge.

 

Cheers

Rex

[andyd]

The one that Stovebolt Engineering sell is a modified Chev S10 pickup distributor..........to be honest as S10's are not sold in Oz I couldn't say exactly what is modified but it was bought with the round coil that was sold with it, installed with new HEI plug leads and the plug gap set at 45thou and VAROOOM!!!!best thing ever.........I have also seen on this forum where an elebtronic Petronix conversion has been used on a mopar dissy and also where the Slant 6 disy has been modified to use........as slant 6's were last used here in Oz in 1969 finding one maybe a problem however I wonder whether the electronic dissy from the 215/245/265 Oz Hemi 6 might offer an option.........that price quoted for the Offy intake has certainly jumped from when I bought mine, think I paid less than half that with a better exchange rate also.......lol.........I have seen various comments on the forum that the Offy intake is not the best design wise and that an Edmunds and/or variations of other USA manifolds are better but as we/I am in Australia then we have to accept that paying to play from here comes with extra costs that the Yanks don't have to consider......lol...........regards, andyd