Fast 2nd Gear?

[Bob Riding]

I'm helping a fellow Forum member @PlyWoodsell his collection of '41-'54 Plymouth and Chrysler cars and parts because he is moving and has no room at the new digs. He has a newly rebuilt C54 256 cu in motor he's selling with a '40 Chrysler 3spd with factory OD. (See Classifieds)

A great Forum post from 2015 "The Rough Field Spotters Guide for Mopar Overdrives" talks about the 1940 Chrysler OD as being a one year model where "the last year where the gear cluster and 2nd speed gear in the 3 speed transmission gave you a "fast 2nd speed". This was done with a cluster tooth count of - "14.19.25.32" and the 2nd speed gear was a 23 tooth count. After this the cluster was a tooth count of "14.19.23.32"

In a recent post @Loren mentioned that my 1940 Plymouth transmission might also have a fast 2nd. Was this a company-wide change? Why didn't they continue it if it was superior to other designs?

[Roadtractor]

Sounds about right, I don't remember the teeth counts but the '40 transmissions I've torn apart had different 2nd gear teeth counts then every other non 1940 trans I've been in. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

40 was the last year for the basic run before change in 41 to other gearing....the 36 - 40 list the same ratios but as stated by me on the other thread started by the OP there are other options....with a fast first and second and reverse ratio 

[JonathanC]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:07 PM, Bob Riding said:

I'm helping a fellow Forum member @PlyWoodsell his collection of '41-'54 Plymouth and Chrysler cars and parts because he is moving and has no room at the new digs. He has a newly rebuilt C54 256 cu in motor he's selling with a '40 Chrysler 3spd with factory OD. (See Classifieds)

A great Forum post from 2015 "The Rough Field Spotters Guide for Mopar Overdrives" talks about the 1940 Chrysler OD as being a one year model where "the last year where the gear cluster and 2nd speed gear in the 3 speed transmission gave you a "fast 2nd speed". This was done with a cluster tooth count of - "14.19.25.32" and the 2nd speed gear was a 23 tooth count. After this the cluster was a tooth count of "14.19.23.32"

In a recent post @Loren mentioned that my 1940 Plymouth transmission might also have a fast 2nd. Was this a company-wide change? Why didn't they continue it if it was superior to other designs?

 

The late Arch Brown when writing about flathead Plymouths of the '40s and '50s (he covered many cars for Hemmings Special Interest Autos and Collectible Automobile magazines, including writing CA's main feature on 1940-48 Plymouths in 1992, and was old enough to remember the cars of that era when they were new) frequently expressed displeasure with the fact that Plymouth lowered second from 1.55:1 on 1940 models to 1.83:1 on 1941 models. He claimed that the 1.55 gearing was superior for keeping up speed on long upgrades such as you might encounter in mountainous areas.

 

On 10/14/2022 at 2:07 PM, Bob Riding said:

 

 

[Bob Riding]

12 minutes ago, JonathanC said:

 

The late Arch Brown when writing about flathead Plymouths of the '40s and '50s (he covered many cars for Hemmings Special Interest Autos and Collectible Automobile magazines, including writing CA's main feature on 1940-48 Plymouths in 1992, and was old enough to remember the cars of that era when they were new) frequently expressed displeasure with the fact that Plymouth lowered second from 1.55:1 on 1940 models to 1.83:1 on 1941 models. He claimed that the 1.55 gearing was superior for keeping up speed on long upgrades such as you might encounter in mountainous areas.

 

 

@Lorenand others have said as much. Thanks for the reference!

 

[Loren]

If you came from the Ford side of this great hobby you may well have heard the term “Zephyr Gears”.

The Lincoln Zephyr used a taller 2nd gear and is a very similar idea as the 40 Plymouth gear set.

The hot setup for a Model A is a 39 V8 gearbox with Zephyr gears. This gives you a synchro/silent gear set more evenly spaced.

The 39 gearbox is like the Plymouth being the last stick shift. What I have done additionally for my Model A is add the “Old School” Studebaker R-10 Overdrive mounted on the torque tube driveshaft. These were built in the 1950s for guys wanting to use their Model As on the highway. This is replacing the S-10 T-5 transmission that I have come to hate so much.

 

For my Plymouths I have the R-10 Overdrive gearbox with the 1940 gear set. In my humble opinion this is far and away better than the S-10 T-5 on several levels, it gives four speeds but because of the freewheel feature you can ( if you desire ) and the Automatic Overdrive avoid using the clutch as much. The gear ratios make more sense and the thing bolts right in. My Coupe came with a 3.73 final drive ratio but I have a 3.54 from a 56 Dodge, I am going to try.

So the “Fast second gear” is not some crazy rumor and it has a basis in other car makes.

[James_Douglas]

I have a couple of second gears in my parts and one is a fast second gear. If you look at my old posts what I found was that the fast second gear works great in the lighter cars. In the big suburban, I found that the standard second gear and OD worked better in city traffic. Since I have run both, I had the opportunity to get a feel for them both.

 

James

[Loren]

9 hours ago, James_Douglas said:

I have a couple of second gears in my parts and one is a fast second gear. If you look at my old posts what I found was that the fast second gear works great in the lighter cars. In the big suburban, I found that the standard second gear and OD worked better in city traffic. Since I have run both, I had the opportunity to get a feel for them both.

 

James

That’s good to know!

My 49 Coupe is rather light and makes the standard second gear seem almost silly.

They came with 3.73 final drive gears so I have a 3.54 pumpkin ready to install.

My other car is a 52 Suburban, a heavier car. Its no where near the weight of your DeSoto but it is heavier than the Coupe. Perhaps I should stick with the standard gear for it.

 

If you go to eBay and search “1940 Plymouth Transmission Gears” you will find plenty of them. You’ll need the cluster ( which I bought for $90 ) and the second gear ( $50 ) sold by seller fmmpar.