Mystery numbers on 25” block

[NoGoFargo]

I have a 25” flathead 6 that came out of my 53 Fargo. It’s not the original and there are several things that I haven’t been able to find any information on. 
Background information:

Block number near the head is D49 2 6871 C and looks like it was stamped by hand. 
Under the water pump gasket it’s stamped 269612. I’ve never seen or heard of a number stamped there?

Number cast into block under distributor L 18 3

Crank bearing cap number 665672 and what looks  like 12 stamped sideways on the cap

Head number is 1327337 with D 21 2 above and a 9 stamped behind the coil bracket

 

Distributor number is 1688674 or 14

Is there a way to tell what size engine this is by the crank bearing cap number?

 

Has anyone seen a number stamped under the water pump gasket? It’s upside down just below the head mating surface. 
I can’t find my block or head date code listed anywhere. 

This engine has a center sump oil pan. 
 

I have an industrial engine out of a late 50’s Bombardier sidewalk machine with the same head number But different date code.

 

Id like to know the actual year of this block and head. 

[wagoneer]

The D49 tells you what you need to know about the block and where it came from. -

 1954 Dodge Kingsway export vehicle. That makes sense since you are out of Canada.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Kingsway

 

https://www.t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/dengines.html

 

 

I have a d42 in my own truck. I guess the original engine blew at some point and they drop in whatever is available .

[NoGoFargo]

My concern with the D49 is that it is hand stamped and the block could be any of the 25” block varieties. 
 

[wagoneer]

Should look like this

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/canadian-dodge-d12-serial-engine.1075655/

[timkingsbury]

On 1/14/2022 at 12:24 AM, NoGoFargo said:

I have a 25” flathead 6 that came out of my 53 Fargo. It’s not the original and there are several things that I haven’t been able to find any information on. 
Background information:

Block number near the head is D49 2 6871 C and looks like it was stamped by hand. 
Under the water pump gasket it’s stamped 269612. I’ve never seen or heard of a number stamped there?

Number cast into block under distributor L 18 3

Crank bearing cap number 665672 and what looks  like 12 stamped sideways on the cap

Head number is 1327337 with D 21 2 above and a 9 stamped behind the coil bracket

 

Distributor number is 1688674 or 14

Is there a way to tell what size engine this is by the crank bearing cap number?

 

Has anyone seen a number stamped under the water pump gasket? It’s upside down just below the head mating surface. 
I can’t find my block or head date code listed anywhere. 

This engine has a center sump oil pan. 
 

I have an industrial engine out of a late 50’s Bombardier sidewalk machine with the same head number But different date code.

 

Id like to know the actual year of this block and head. 

1) A D49 is a  1954 dodge car engine serial number

2)  Under the water pump stamped number  -   do you have a picture ?

3)  March 18th  1957 the block was cast.  So most likely a replacement block that a dealer or rebuilder both the internals over and stamped the block with the d49 serial number

4) crank cap number is over several years so not really relevant

5) Head number also over several years. I could look it up to see if it what it was for.  If it was off the engine a picture of the chamber would be easier for me to tell which year.

6) distributor number irrelevant.

7) no , but if you have the pan off the part number is on the crank and rods. That would tell you.

8-) a late 50s bombardier could be a 250/251 or 265  but see next point

 

The thing I would do for the bombarder is pull the brass plug over cylinder #6.   put down a small rod, turn the motor over with a bar measuring the distance between top dead center and bottom dead center.

 

4 1/2" is a 250/251 and 4 3/4"  is a 265 and for your d49  if its 4 1/4" stroke is a 238 ci motor.

 

Chrysler referred to vehicle version of the 4 1/2" stroke ( 3 7/16" bore ) as a 250  an the industial as a 251.  Same bore and stroke. The reason why is the cams are always different on the industial. The head can be different  (usually lower compression) and the valves can be thicker stemmed sodium cooled which are low rpm valves for engines that are run constantly.

 

another note: a 250/251 has to be 1946 or newer in anything civilian.    265 has to be  september 1951 or newer.

 

Tim  Kingsbury

fargopickupking@yahoo.com

 

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

Tim, I have seen several suggest the cams are made to a different spec on industrial engines. Do you know what the differences are by chance? I compared the lift and duration on a ‘59 265ind vrs a ‘48 237 and both appear the same? I did not check centerline. The reason Im asking, planning to use the IND cam for a regrind. Thank you, Kevin 

[NoGoFargo]

Thanks Tim for the very helpful information. 
 

I’ll post some pics of the number under the water pump gasket. 
I’m thinking it’s a number put there by the rebuilder possibly for warranty purposes? 
 

If you could get more information on that head number it would be much appreciated. 
 

Im not going to open up this engine as it has good compression and everything looks to be in good condition with a bore scope but I could pull the head off of my parts engine with the same head number once I’m back in Ontario from BC. 
 

I haven’t had the oil pan off yet but that will likely happen before the engine goes back in the truck because it’s center sump and from my research the trucks are supposed to be rear sump. 
I don’t know how it even fit in the truck without front axle interference.  
 

The Bombardier engine is seized so I can’t do the brass plug over #6 test. 
 

I’ll be doing the #6 plug test on the D49 when I’m home in the spring. 
 

It appears the PO got a flat tire on the driver side rear and didn’t know about left hand thread and after days and days of trying to get the tire off gave up on the truck back in the early 90’s. He then got the Bombardier with a blown/seized engine and started the swap for the truck motor then somehow he broke the mounting flange off of the only carb he had so he gave up and started swapping in a Nissan engine. 
 

I got the truck on trade for finishing the Nissan engine swap. Well worth the 10 hrs of work

Sorry for getting off topic. 
 

I’d also be interested in knowing about the cams that Kevin asked about. 
 

Thanks 

[NoGoFargo]

Wagoneer

 

Heres a pic of my engine number. 
It’s definitely stamped by hand. 

[timkingsbury]

20 hours ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

Tim, I have seen several suggest the cams are made to a different spec on industrial engines. Do you know what the differences are by chance? I compared the lift and duration on a ‘59 265ind vrs a ‘48 237 and both appear the same? I did not check centerline. The reason Im asking, planning to use the IND cam for a regrind. Thank you, Kevin 

There are over 60 cam patterns for industrial engines.    It all depends on what horsepower  was required and for a 265 that ranged from 80hp to 120hp, what rpm the engine is going, and what the gallons per 8 hour shift target is.  An industrial engine typically can be a low as an operating rpm of 1450  rpm.   a  lot little higher in the 1800 rpm and rarely is anything over 2400 rpm.  It is not just the cam, they will also use a lower compression head often times.     In your case a 1959 industrial 265 tell me it more likely is in a combine, swather, harvester, tow motor or airplane tug.   By 1959 the 251 industrial out sold the 265.   Your 1948  238 ci motor would be likely from a truck and the lift would be the same as most of the 1959 265 engines, although the duration will be less. You will also find the head of the industrial is less compression than the 1948   238 motor.

[timkingsbury]

17 hours ago, NoGoFargo said:

Thanks Tim for the very helpful information. 
 

I’ll post some pics of the number under the water pump gasket. 
I’m thinking it’s a number put there by the rebuilder possibly for warranty purposes? 
 

If you could get more information on that head number it would be much appreciated. 
 

Im not going to open up this engine as it has good compression and everything looks to be in good condition with a bore scope but I could pull the head off of my parts engine with the same head number once I’m back in Ontario from BC. 
 

I haven’t had the oil pan off yet but that will likely happen before the engine goes back in the truck because it’s center sump and from my research the trucks are supposed to be rear sump. 
I don’t know how it even fit in the truck without front axle interference.  
 

The Bombardier engine is seized so I can’t do the brass plug over #6 test. 
 

I’ll be doing the #6 plug test on the D49 when I’m home in the spring. 
 

It appears the PO got a flat tire on the driver side rear and didn’t know about left hand thread and after days and days of trying to get the tire off gave up on the truck back in the early 90’s. He then got the Bombardier with a blown/seized engine and started the swap for the truck motor then somehow he broke the mounting flange off of the only carb he had so he gave up and started swapping in a Nissan engine. 
 

I got the truck on trade for finishing the Nissan engine swap. Well worth the 10 hrs of work

Sorry for getting off topic. 
 

I’d also be interested in knowing about the cams that Kevin asked about. 
 

Thanks 

The number under the water pump means nothing concerning size of the engine, that is for sure.

 

The head, as I said,  same part number over several years.    Without seeing the underside your not going to get any further information,  sorry.

 

The bombardier  well  your could remove the pan and check the part number on the crank and rods. Beyond that its just speculation on what it is.   What was originally in a late 50s bombardier was a 265, but there were 251s in smaller ones and I have seen many times when we have pulled the engine it turned out to have come from a car or truck, so  based on what your telling me only a part number is going to help us.

 

On the sum and pan,  you can change the pickups and pans to have back, front or center pickups. the pans are interchangeable  depending on the application. You  just need to remember to also change the pickup if you change the pan.

Tim

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

That is some very educational information. Thank you, Kevin 

[NoGoFargo]

4 hours ago, timkingsbury said:

The number under the water pump means nothing concerning size of the engine, that is for sure.

 

The head, as I said,  same part number over several years.    Without seeing the underside your not going to get any further information,  sorry.

 

The bombardier  well  your could remove the pan and check the part number on the crank and rods. Beyond that its just speculation on what it is.   What was originally in a late 50s bombardier was a 265, but there were 251s in smaller ones and I have seen many times when we have pulled the engine it turned out to have come from a car or truck, so  based on what your telling me only a part number is going to help us.

 

On the sum and pan,  you can change the pickups and pans to have back, front or center pickups. the pans are interchangeable  depending on the application. You  just need to remember to also change the pickup if you change the pan.

Tim

Tim. That is quite a difference in combustion chamber. 
I’d imagine on the right block with the right rotating assembly that could change compression significantly. 
 

Thanks for the info