wheel/pinion oil seal numbers and dimensions not making sense

[harmony]

I need to replace my wheel inner and outer seals and my pinion seal fairly soon on my 1948 Chrysler Windsor.  I don't have a shop/garage to do the job in.  The car parks in an outdoor reserved parking space where working on a car is frowned upon.  My car won't fit in my shop and outside my shop where it's parked while I'm there, is grass.  Also leaving the car parked there over night is frowned upon.  So any work I do on the car needs to be accomplished in one day.  So I'm hesitant to try and replace the seals myself.  If I take it to a service shop, they, and myself, want the process to go as fast as possible, plus I don't want my car sitting outside their shop waiting for seals. That's an explanation as to why I want to track down the seals before everything gets pulled apart.   This is turning out to be not a simple task.

 

There are a number of sites that do cross referencing with sizes included.  With many open tabs on my computer with lots of cross reference numbers I'm learning that even though the original Chrysler number from the parts book are two different number, the inner seal 651678 and outer seal 859164, after checking many cross references, most companies list them as being the same size OD. and ID.   It seems that the only differences are in the thickness.  The parts book only lists the measurements for the inner seal. 

 

As for the thickness, the parts book says the inner seal 651678 is .47 in. thick.  I don't have my parts car inner seals to compare p/n.   Victor 62160 is .375 in. thick. SKF 13797 is .25 in. thick.  National/Timken 6241S is .25 in. thick.  I have my parts car outer seal which is a Victor 62160 on one side and Victor 46292 on the other side and they measure the same dimensions.  But they both seems to be the same size as the online dimensions.  Why the two different numbers is beyond me, that in itself seems strange, but my digital and dial calipers both verify that they are the same.

Would it make any sense to try and install two of the SKF seals totaling .50 in. or there abouts?

 

Here's something interesting.  That National/Timken 6241S that cross references to the inner seal( 651678) is actually the outer seal on my car. Which I haven't removed yet.  What's that all about??  Is it just a thickness difference between inner and outer? Or maybe my cars existing outer seal is wrong?

 

As for the pinion seal 663602.  In an old thread from 2014 a fella said the seal he got was too thin.  His was .586 thick when he removed it.  The one he got from Federal Mogul 473240 was .312in. thick . Victor has 3 cross reference seals all different numbers, all the same dimensions and they are .765in. thick.  I think maybe SKF 18880 would be my best bet at 1.88in. x 3.11in. x .500in.  It was also recommended on that thread to use a Speedi-Sleeve.  SKF 99189 apparently matches up to their 18880 seal.  However in that 2014 thread another fella said that the Speedi-Sleeve that he installed was too short and so he got a leak.   He said he went back in there and replaced it with a longer Speedi-Sleeve.  So does anyone have any information about X-long Speedi-Sleeves that would replace the SKF 99189?  Just to be prepared on the safe side.  I didn't see any reference to that on the SKF site when I was researching their Speedi-Sleeves. 

Another question would be is it possible, or advisable, or a no-no, to use Speedi-Sleeves on the axle as well? 

 

It would probably be a wise decision to at least order a couple axle bearings as well.  My parts car axle bearing number is Timken 25877.  The online bore measurement of that matches the ID measurement in the parts book bearing 698-400 within .0005, so I'm assuming I should be safe with ordering that Timken bearing. 

 

I hate farming out a job that is basically straight forward, once I have the correct seals, but as I mentioned I just don't have a shop to do it in. I would look forward to the challenge.  However it seems that the entire gear assembly of the rear end has to come out to get that pinion seal out so as to install a Speedi-Sleeve and new seal.  Plus it seems both axles have to come out to make sure the axle end play is correct on both axles, basically at the same time.  No way this old fart can accomplish that in one day from sunrise to sunset, even on a long summer day, crawling around on the grass under the car.  There are ducks and chickens all over the place and they love camping out under my car when I'm at my shop, so you can imagine how much fun crawling around on the grass would be, with their "deposits" everywhere.  So I want to try and pave the way as smooth as possible for the service garage to do the job without having to reorder all the seals in the event the ones I get won't fit, which seems like almost a guaranty if I got them from the regular mopar parts suppliers, from what I've read and learned.   So I'm trying to source them myself through seal/bearing companies.    

 

        

[JBNeal]

I've had to work on unpaved surfaces many times, and the best approach I found was having a big piece of heavy cardboard to slide around on and / or work over.  The best cardboard is from refrigerator boxes and boxes from unassembled desks as they are a heavier cardboard that doesn't rip or puncture easily.  When I'm done with the work for the day, I fold up the cardboard and stow it someplace dry, ready to use again.  I try to keep the ground side down on each use for obvious reasons.

[wagoneer]

@harmony I ordered outer seals and bearings from Bernbaums for my 48' Windsor. They also have the inner one on their site.  I have received some mistakes from them, but they usually correct them free of charge. 

 

 I am in a similar situation in that I do not have a paved enclosed location for my workshop, though I can leave it in my backyard for a little while. My landlord (wife) also frowns upon work-in-progress items, but I persevere through the glares (especially around my long term project B2B that I have dedicated to her. ?. 

 

I did build a temporary platform and put some boards down to drive onto. Simple 3/4" plywood and 12 or 16 foot 12 inch wide planks work as ramps to give a stable platform to drive onto, work under, and put jack stands on. I nail them into the ground with 12" stakes. 

 

 

[chrysler1941]

Take you car out to a public parking or a park and camp beside it LOL

 

The 651678  old seal design has 2 lips, therefor thicker. Modern ones have a new design, far superior and thinner. Use only one.

According to Plymouth part cross reference 859164 is a match to NAPA 14359. I can't confirm.

 

Speedi sleeve only if axle surface is worn or pitted.

 

[harmony]

4 hours ago, wagoneer said:

@harmony I ordered outer seals and bearings from Bernbaums for my 48' Windsor. They also have the inner one on their site.  I have received some mistakes from them, but they usually correct them free of charge. 

 

 I am in a similar situation in that I do not have a paved enclosed location for my workshop, though I can leave it in my backyard for a little while. My landlord (wife) also frowns upon work-in-progress items, but I persevere through the glares (especially around my long term project B2B that I have dedicated to her. ?. 

 

I did build a temporary platform and put some boards down to drive onto. Simple 3/4" plywood and 12 or 16 foot 12 inch wide planks work as ramps to give a stable platform to drive onto, work under, and put jack stands on. I nail them into the ground with 12" stakes. 

 

 

I've ordered from AB several times and I also have had issues with getting the wrong thing sometimes.  The one problem with AB is that they only have their p/n.  So you have no verification as to where it's made or it's actual dimensions in the case of wheel seals.  Plus they don't offer the speedi-sleeve.  The other issue is Customs can hold stuff for as long as they like.  So if AB did sent the wrong seals, I've now doubled my chance of a prolonged wait getting through US/Canada customs. I'm thinking death by natural causes might come my way first.  

With the price of plywood these days, no wonder you nailed it down.   

[harmony]

4 hours ago, chrysler1941 said:

Take you car out to a public parking or a park and camp beside it LOL

 

The 651678  old seal design has 2 lips, therefor thicker. Modern ones have a new design, far superior and thinner. Use only one.

According to Plymouth part cross reference 859164 is a match to NAPA 14359. I can't confirm.

 

Speedi sleeve only if axle surface is worn or pitted.

 

According to everything I've read so far, I think the NAPA 14359 I.D. of 1.438 in. is much too big.   Victor 62160 has a measurement of 1.375 in.    SKF is 1.38 in. and Timken 6241S is 1.375.  Those measurements are shaft dia.  meaning the seal would be slightly smaller.  Which makes sense because the one from my parts car which is the Victor 62160 measures around 1.32 in.