marfulle Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Do they make an after market distributor for the flathead 6's, one that eliminates the vacuum advance. Or do they make something that I can add to my existing distributor that will eliminate my vacuum advance? Thank guys Quote
billwillard Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Just remove hose and plug line, but why would you want to do that? I have one with no adv that came off power wagon. Will not use it because will get poor milage. Bill Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 As Bill said, your engine performance will suffer greatly...what is your reason to remove the vacuum advance...to eliminate it would put all advance on the centrifical weights..which will not allow full advance by themselves (the need for vacuum) and if you do tune the distributor to allow full advance, it will come on too stong at the lower RPM spectrum...if you have a faulty advance unit, then address this..the parts are available.. I again post from the Imperial Club sebsite... http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/001/index.htm Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Flathead six cylinder distributors from many industrial applications do not have vacuum advance capabilities. Not required on these engines as they run a governed steady speed. You could find one of these distributors for your car but like Bill and Tim I must ask why? Quote
marfulle Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 I was trying to time my engine and the vacuum advance unit hits on the starter and will not make it zero degrees. I have tried to repositon the plug wires and that brings it to far the other way. It is close about 5 degree is the best I can do. Now if I took off the advance unit.....bingo zero degrees. I have also tried to turn my distributor 180, but the unit again hit on the oil filler tube. The dang unit is just too big. Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 I was trying to time my engine and the vacuum advance unit hits on the starter and will not make it zero degrees. I have tried to repositon the plug wires and that brings it to far the other way. It is close about 5 degree is the best I can do. Now if I took off the advance unit.....bingo zero degrees. I have also tried to turn my distributor 180, but the unit again hit on the oil filler tube. The dang unit is just too big. The problem is not your vacuum advance pot. Problem is your oil pump is not indexed correctly. Quote
marfulle Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 That just sounds like a lot of work. So I am assuming I have to drop my pan and reinstall my oil pump? If it is not one thing it is another. I have been working on this car for the past 2 in a half years and it is still not running. I sometimes get very frustrated. I take one step forward, just to take 2 backwards. We only live so long. Quote
marfulle Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 Sorry I needed to vent. I will look into the indexing thing and see what is up. My car is at my school where I teach and we have a really great auto shop. I will lift it up and have the kiddies drop my pan.. .maybe the kids and I will both learn something. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 there is no need to drop a thing on your car..the oil pump is acessable by removing the two 9/16 headed bolts ont he passenger side of the block...Please take care to have the engine on TDC #1 while doing this so that when the oil pump is correctly indexed and inserted..(will rotate the shat due to helical cut gear on the cam, it will align for the slot to be at 7 o'clock...then when you install the distribultor timing the engine is possible... Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Here is a picture of the oil pump. As Tim said it is a simple procedure and you should be done in ten minutes or less. Quote
marfulle Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 OK, I understand TDC and pulling off the oil pump. What I am having a hard time with is how do I know which way to reinstall the pump? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 when you get #1 TDC..pull the distributor....look at the location of the slot...then go to opposite side of engine..and loosen the bolts..slip the oil pump back away from the block..on some models it can actually be hindered by the frame for full removal but remember, we just indexing the gear..go back to other side..and look at the new position..dit it move farther or nearer the 7 po'clock..you will need about three teeth for homing the unit for full engagement..keep this in mind..after your first attemp..you will quickly see what way and how far to rotate the oilpump shaft..you can use a long screw driver to index the oil pump gear..for you alignment attempt... Quote
Normspeed Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Eric, I think I have the procedure with an illustration in my Plymouth shop manual. I'll look it up and post tonight when I'm at home. It really is pretty simple. PS, don't feel bad, after I got my motor back from the speed shop that rebuilt it, I found that they had not put the oil pump in correctly and I had to re-index it myself. Quote
martybose Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 I think everyone is making this far too complicated. It sounds to me that the real issue is that the plug wires are in the wrong positions on the distributor cap. Try this on for thought: Make up some kind of temporary pointer to accurately mark the location of the #1 plug wire on the cap. Then take off all of the plug wires, loosen the distributor bolt on the housing and turn the housing until the vacuum can is somewhere with some movement, then line up any nearby cap tower with the pointer and tighten the bolt. Do not disengage the drive tang, or if you have to, make sure the rotor goes back in the same position. Reinstall all of the plugs wires in the correct order, starting with number one at the pointer. If done right, even the timing will be correct. Marty Quote
Normspeed Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 If you go with the oil pump fix, here is the indexing info. Step 18 and figure 30. It's pretty easy, but if you can use a simpler cure, like Marty's, go for it! Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 I think everyone is making this far too complicated. It sounds to me that the real issue is that the plug wires are in the wrong positions on the distributor cap.Try this on for thought: Make up some kind of temporary pointer to accurately mark the location of the #1 plug wire on the cap. Then take off all of the plug wires, loosen the distributor bolt on the housing and turn the housing until the vacuum can is somewhere with some movement, then line up any nearby cap tower with the pointer and tighten the bolt. Do not disengage the drive tang, or if you have to, make sure the rotor goes back in the same position. Reinstall all of the plugs wires in the correct order, starting with number one at the pointer. If done right, even the timing will be correct. Marty Marty; Not sure how changing the wire positions in the distributor cap will allow the distributor to be rotated past the slotted stops in the distributor hold down bracket so there are no real estate issues with the vacuum advance pot? I think the oil pump must first be indexed to a location where it allowes the distributor full movement without the vacuum pot hitting the starter or the oil fill tube. Once it is indexed to such a position then the wires need to be correctly positioned in the distributor cap to time the engine. Quote
Normspeed Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 Yeah it sounds like the vac advance hits the oil filler or the starter so it's just indexed at a bad spot. Have to pull the oil pump to correct it. BUT, if Eric can get it to a setting of 5 degrees BTDC as he mentioned, the car may run well at that setting. I run mine at 4 BTDC, runs great, and I'm about to fool around and try 5 or 6, as long as I continue to get absolutely no ping. Quote
martybose Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 Marty;Not sure how changing the wire positions in the distributor cap will allow the distributor to be rotated past the slotted stops in the distributor hold down bracket so there are no real estate issues with the vacuum advance pot? I think the oil pump must first be indexed to a location where it allowes the distributor full movement without the vacuum pot hitting the starter or the oil fill tube. Once it is indexed to such a position then the wires need to be correctly positioned in the distributor cap to time the engine. Ah, my bad! I was thinking in terms of the bracket that's on my Langdon HEI distributor, which doesn't limit movement. But on that note, wouldn't the OEM slotted bracket have to be upside down or backwards to get the vacuum can to the position that he mentioned? Marty Quote
Lou Earle Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 You mentioned hitting oil breather pipe-the vacuum advance should go behind the breather pipe easily- I suspect the pipe is not properly installed and or wrong pipe is being used. When pipe is installed correctly the open part of the breather should be facing the rear or the engine is it doing that? Lou Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 Ah, my bad! I was thinking in terms of the bracket that's on my Langdon HEI distributor, which doesn't limit movement. But on that note, wouldn't the OEM slotted bracket have to be upside down or backwards to get the vacuum can to the position that he mentioned?Marty Marty; You may have found the problem. I just checked and the plate will go with either side up. First picture is correct and the second picture is incorrect. Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 You mentioned hitting oil breather pipe-the vacuum advance should go behind the breather pipe easily- I suspect the pipe is not properly installed and or wrong pipe is being used. When pipe is installed correctly the open part of the breather should be facing the rear or the engine is it doing that?Lou Lou; On my engine the vacuum advance is not close to the oil fill pipe or the starter. Quote
Lou Earle Posted October 14, 2007 Report Posted October 14, 2007 Don you said "On my engine the vacuum advance is not close to the oil fill pipe or the starter." And your pic proves it. I wonder if your engine being longer than my meager 230's and 218's have anything to do with it. My dist sits at the same angle as your s but just goes a little behind the tube and my tube on both 48's that I looked at are the same way. I do not have camera here to get a pic. Again your vacuum position seems right at least in relation to how mine look Lou Quote
Normspeed Posted October 14, 2007 Report Posted October 14, 2007 Here's a 218 set up by the book. At #1 TDC, compression stroke, the rotor will point to 7 o clock, that will be #1 plug wire. Quote
marfulle Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Posted October 16, 2007 Well, I timed the beast. I settled with about 5 degree before top dead center. I let the motor run for about 40 min and everything looked good. I am really happy that I got this thing going, I was starting to question why I was still working on this car. Thanks everyone for your help on this. Eric Quote
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