Seat Belts 1939 P8

[Eneto-55]

On 12/12/2020 at 10:26 AM, Plymouthy Adams said:

I agree with you....only time I extracted a donor floor sections and seats I had a trailer equipped with a generator, my compressor and various electrical and air driven cutters and grinders.  It was still not a quick and easy task as you working on dirt for the most part and limited in means to support and stay safe.  Anyone who says the modern cars are built cheap and flimsy has never tried to cut one apart I assure you.  I buy a donor vehicle when doing a retro and utilize as much as possible off the carcass before ditching the remnants at the recyclers.   It is cheaper and easier in the long run....but again, it is an involved process but hey, this is where the fun is at in my opinion.  

I have cut up two unibody vehicles, first a 1968 Dodge station wagon (made a trailer out of it, many years ago.) and the 93 Chrysler T&C I mentioned in my previous post.  The frame on the 68 was more as if it had just been welded into the body structure, where as with the 93 T&C, the frame was made of much thinner steel, but the whole body was the frame.  But the 68 I just cut in two just into the front doors, where as with the T&C I eventually cut it up in pieces small enough that I loaded it all by hand (and at 135 pounds I'm not a "big boned" guy), by myself, in an S10 pickup to take to the scrap yard.  (Several loads, of course.)  But I learned a lot about how vehicle bodies are put together by doing that.  (And made a terrific lot of noise, cutting it up with a saws-all.)

Edited December 14, 2020 by Eneto-55

[Plymouthy Adams]

well this was carefully extracted and most of it made its way into my 48 bz cp......this puts the metal in the 48 as original design, weight and fabrication to shame....

[Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

this puts the metal in the 48 as original design, weight and fabrication to shame....

 

Still yet,

That's some fabrication. Nice job.

[Lloyd]

I'll post some pics of some seats tomorrow after I get back from the salvage yard.

I appreciate everyones feedback.

[Plymouthy Adams]

thanks Lloyd...what I was saying with the advancement is safety and cockpit design with crumple zone make for some heavy metal in places...

[Pete]

Hi all,

 

I installed 2-point lap belts in my 1939 P8 4 door touring sedan. I got the belts from SeatbeltsPlus.com. See the pics. This may or may not help with 3-point belt installation.

 

I installed the retractor side inside the frame of the front seat. It's a tight fit, but it works. Once the seat is assembled, only the chrome buckle is visible sticking up between the frame and the seat cushion. (The seat is sitting on the floor as I removed everything from the interior floor to install a Dymamat kit.)

 

Pete

 

[Lloyd]

Hey Pete. That does help. I wanted 3 point with retracters. I wonder if the top anchor could mount at the top of the vertical side piece?

The extensions on the retracters, how did you get those? 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Lloyd

[Pete]

Hi Lloyd,

 

The extensions are part of the retractors on the 2-point. It appears the the 3-point does not have the extensions:

 

https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH300.html

 

I can't help you with the top mount until I have the seat back in the car. My guess is that the belt would be slightly in the way for entering/exiting, but more a minor annoyance than a showstopper.

 

Pete

 

[Lloyd]

Yeah your right, they are available on the 2 point but not the 3 point.

[Plymouthy Adams]

and therein lies the marketing of most belt suppliers....generic belts and not much available for custom fits...this is where you get creative...and creative may be a trial and error but hopefully the error is discovered during the fit and not fitness when stressed in an accident.  The wrecking yard I still state proves invaluable in sourcing donor parts...do not rule out that co mingling front and rear center straps may be necessary for a bench seat.  The buckles are the same if from front and rear of same car.  

Edited December 14, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[Eneto-55]

18 hours ago, Lloyd said:

 

Thanks Eneto. Knowing what you got the seat from helps. I would like to put a bench in there as we'll. 40/60 with the folding armrest. Cup holders and built in seat belts. I measured the width of my 39 and it's 49". 

I'll be headed back to the Pick-a- part yard tomorrow. 

I'll make it a point to check any mini vans I see. 

Well, well.  The rear bench from my 93 Chrysler T&C is 47" wide.  So you would loose or gain, depending on how you look at it, 1" on each side.  (The P15 front seat is around 52" wide.  So I guess if a person was of the thin type as I am, one could probably accept the loss of 2 1/4 to 2 1/2" on each side, and that would leave plenty room for retractors between the seat & the B pillar.)  Since I don't have the tracks for that seat anymore, I can't give a height measurement, to compare to your '38, but I would surprised if they aren't close to the same.

 

The other option would be to narrow the stock seat enough to clear your retractors.  I personally think that the original seat with coil springs would be more comfortable than the 93 foam seats, but then I never sat in the rear of the 93 very much to start with, and it's been 10 years since I stopped driving it.  And I haven't sat in a P15 for any length of time at all since I was a little kid.  I haven't examined the inner seat frame (the part with the coil springs) with that in mind, but I would think it could be done.  But of course the modified seat would also still need to have the whole track/slider mechanism replaced as well.  

Edited December 14, 2020 by Eneto-55

[Lloyd]

11 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

do not rule out that co mingling front and rear center straps may be necessary for a bench seat. 

Thanks Tim. Hadn't even considered that but they should work.

 

4 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

But of course the modified seat would also still need to have the whole track/slider mechanism replaced as well.  

No thanks Eneto, I believe I found what I need at the salvage yard.

 

Just got back from the salvage yard. The seats I found that seem to fit the bill the best are in a 2006 Colorado, 2003 Trail Blazer, 2000-2004 Suburban. The Colorado seat is a split bench type seat with a folding armrest but it does not have the belt built into the seat so I would need to purchase two sets. It measures right at 48". The retracters are 2-1/2" deep and I have a total of 53" from pillar to pillar. It may fit but I will have to take another look at it.

 

The Trail Blazer and the Suburban both have the seat belts including the retracters built into the seat. The Trail Blazer looks like it will fit including the console and to top that I found a Trail Blazer where the seats are already unbolted. But the Suburban will not fit if I include the console. I would have to build something probably out of wood. But the Suburban seat is more cushy and comfortable. Where the top belt goes into the seat also looks better on the Suburban. The Trail Blazer has a small vinyl dome right beside the headrest where the Suburban's seat extends up beside the headrest and has a slot where the belt comes out.

 

The only car I saw that might work was the 02 Buick Le Sabre. Looks like the seat and console will fit and the seat belts are built into the seats. Only thing I didn't like was the way the belts came out beside the headrest. Looked like a balloon.

 

I'm still shopping. Today I spent trudging car to car, truck to truck, opened a lot of doors. But I did narrow it down. Looks like trucks and SUV's are offer the best options for what I'm looking for. Have to go back tomorrow and just compare the three.

At least it won't be looking all over vehicle by vehicle, row by row.

 

I like the Suburban seats. All the consoles I've seen are mostly vinyl anyway so I'm going to take another look at those. When I measured the seats it looks like side by side they will take up about 48". So that should give me about 4-5" in between that maybe I can fabricate a piece of wood.

Cup holders is what I'm shooting for..

 

I asked for some ballpark figures and they told me around 100-150/seat with belts, retracters and tracks. Depends on the condition which mechanicals is all I really care about. I'll be putting new covers on them.

 

Didn't get a shot of the Suburban seats but here's one of the Le Sabre:

 

Here's the Trail Blazer:

 

I could have snapped a few more shots but got to busy opening doors.

I'm tired... but it was fun!

[Plymouthy Adams]

walking through a wrecking yard is so addicting.   I can and have spent hours on end walking about looking at this and that and taking notes of what I like and the make model and year for later retrofit as appropriate.  Like a spice cake a little of everything some times.  Anyway....glad to see you out there looking...nothing ventured, nothing gained.  To be honest with you, the dare to be different reigns king in my book....no cookie cutter cars.....

[Eneto-55]

Glad you were able to find some options you like.  (I'm pretty stuck on the original seat myself, but I had a ride in a fellow church member's Ford full size van last year, and immediately noticed how the belts are completely built into the seats.  Those were individual seats, however, and I definitely want to stick with a bench for sure.)

[Plymouthy Adams]

the thing I would like to mention is careful with vehicles with doors and glass removed and the seatbelts and their associated mechanicals are exposed to the elements.....

Edited December 15, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[Eneto-55]

11 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

the thing I would like to mention is careful with vehicles with doors and glass removed and the seatbelts and their associated mechanicals are exposed to the elements.....

Isn't there also something about not reusing seat belts or retractors after the vehicle has been in a collision?  Is there an expiration date for seat belts for passenger cars like there is for racing belts?

[Lloyd]

You may be right Eneto. I saw a few cars where the belts had been cut. 

I don't know if there is an expiration date. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have a question for you...what is the oldest car you drive that was factory equipped with belts...how many times have you changed these.....when was there ever a notice by the NTSB to change your belts....as for collision...I do not recall these ever added in on a body shop repair ticket...my only concern on using these belts is that they are not showing signs of abuse and chaffing, not having been exposed to the weather and frequent rains with windows down and doors open or off the vehicle.  I have cars from the 70's here, original belts...they are not frayed, chaffed or rusted up...they are still very supple and pliable...not hard and brittle...apply a little common sense..if car was in a collision.....make the call not to use the belts.  Very few cars in the wrecking yards around here are wrecks...these are reclaimed and disposed of through major marketing networks...not your local yokel yard.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[Lloyd]

Right you are. I had been wondering why I saw some of the belts cut off?

I was thinking I might have a few words to say if I buy one of the seats with the belts built in and they try to cut them. Thought maybe it might be a liability thing or something. 

[Eneto-55]

I did more on-line checking last night, and apparently at least some of the latest high-dollar cars have some sort of explosive device in the retractor that locks the belts in any collision in which the air bags also go off, something that requires a repair or replacement of the entire belt system.  So it would seem that the condition of the airbags would be a good rule of thumb.  Older cars are easily totaled for insurance purposes in even a very minor fender bender.

[Jerry Roberts]

20 hours ago, Lloyd said:

I had been wondering why I saw some of the belts cut off?

I have seen several times in the local Pick-and-Pull that the customers have pulled engines using seat belts from the cars for straps . 

[Plymouthy Adams]

but the constant beeping drives your crazy......