Woodgrain care and feeding.......

[frankieflathead]

Hi, everyone! I've dropped in on the site now and then over the years, but never logged on until just now. My reason for finally taking the plunge is the recent acquisition of a very cherry 1st Series Dodge D24C Club Coupe with slightly more than 55,000 original miles on it. One of it's most endearing features is a near perfect original interior, including a flawless, unscratched or faded dashboard. The woodgrain pattern is one of the prettiest I've ever seen. I have a couple of questions: 1) Am I correct in assuming that this is a material made by 3M known as Di-Noc? and 2) To preserve the shine, should it be waxed (if so with what type of wax) or just kept clean with water and mild detergent? Any and all answers and opinions are welcome. Thanx in advance!

[greg g]

I do believe it is Di Noc. I use glass cleaner and a microfiber cloth on my. I haven't waxed mine. Wouldn't want to use a wax with a cleaner in it. Maybe test some Pledge or other furniture polish on the underside to try it.

[frankieflathead]

Hi, everyone! I've dropped in on the site now and then over the years, but never logged on until just now. My reason for finally taking the plunge is the recent acquisition of a very cherry 1st Series Dodge D24C Club Coupe with slightly more than 55,000 original miles on it. One of it's most endearing features is a near perfect original interior, including a flawless, unscratched or faded dashboard. The woodgrain pattern is one of the prettiest I've ever seen. I have a couple of questions: 1) Am I correct in assuming that this is a material made by 3M known as Di-Noc? and 2) To preserve the shine, should it be waxed (if so with what type of wax) or just kept clean with water and mild detergent? Any and all answers and opinions are welcome. Thanx in advance!

It's 1st Series 1949 Dodge D24C Club Coupe!!!!!!

[claybill]

it is definitely NOT DI-NOC!!!! i have been thru this!!

di-noc is a piece of paper that is adhered...usually metallic type thngs.

i have been thru this a dozen times and NO ONE has an answer..but in the forum a year ago an old timer employee, said it was a method similar to dipping the metal dash into a liquid....?etc etc.....like an easter egg!!!

however if you look closely at an old dash without gages you will be surprised and baffled at..

1...no seam..no glue

2.. no physical thickness

3..goes around corners unbelievably smooth and easily..

di- noc cant do any of those.!!!

the plymouth woodgrain is a real bag of tricks...

i wondered if the grain wasnt applied BEFORE the stamping due to curve coverage....forum members said no, it would be too oily!!! but then nobody really knows how it was done!!

current woodgraining is done by hand..or by a soft-gel roller from a plate....but curves are near impossible.

look at at a removed dash..examine the ends and edges...amazing!

i am still baffled.

bill

[greg g]

Check this stuff out. I have seen it applied and I have witnessed the process. there is a company here that does it for about 75 cents a square foot. While I was wratching the process, they were doing cologne bottle stoppers. It is a suspended gel into which ites are dipped. Supposedly you can have any image that can be digitized trafered to the gel. So if you wated to do your dash board in a picture of your kid's face you could do so. they do not have the Plymouth wood grain pattern. A frind had several pieces in his Mini doe in the walnt burl looked great. He had it clear coated for UV/wear protection. After 3 years it still looks great. Di NOc is still available in lots of wood gains for archetectural use. And they also make that bus wrap stuff.

http://www.immersiongraphics.com/opportunity/default.asp

[frankieflathead]

Check this stuff out. I have seen it applied and I have witnessed the process. there is a company here that does it for about 75 cents a square foot. While I was wratching the process, they were doing cologne bottle stoppers. It is a suspended gel into which ites are dipped. Supposedly you can have any image that can be digitized trafered to the gel. So if you wated to do your dash board in a picture of your kid's face you could do so. they do not have the Plymouth wood grain pattern. A frind had several pieces in his Mini doe in the walnt burl looked great. He had it clear coated for UV/wear protection. After 3 years it still looks great. Di NOc is still available in lots of wood gains for archetectural use. And they also make that bus wrap stuff.

http://www.immersiongraphics.com/opportunity/default.asp

Thanx for the Immersion Graphics link. As Arte Johnson used to say: verrrrrrry interesting! Reminds me of a very similar process I saw during a demonstration of artisan bookbinding in which the endleafs were finished with a multicolor wavy pattern (maybe you've seen an example) by floating the pattern on water and just skimming the end paper across the surface, rather than immersing it. Being paper, immersion would not be a good idea. This guy made neckties the same way!!! Seems like this is a much more efficient method than the old school way that I've seem some restoration shops do of sprayed base coat, clear coat, darker color kind of dry brushed on the wet clear coat to simulate the grain, clear coat, etc.,etc. Repeated many times, it creates an amazing depth of finish, but takes SOOO much time and $$$$$!!!

[frankieflathead]

Certainly seems to be one of lifes great mysteries!

[Young Ed]

I've been prepping a spare dash for repainting. When I was using the wire wheel in my drill the wood grained part flew off compared to the brown paint. It did not appear to be decal though. It looked like paint of some sort.

[claybill]

it is paint. it is not decal.

bill

[De Soto Frank]

Dashes and interior mouldings w/ woodgrain are painted, as Claybill said.

Google "grain-it technologies" and you will see their site which now has DIY kits, or they will happily restore your stuff.

Basically it is a transfer process, starting with applying a base color (referred to as the "ground"), then a grain pattern is chosen (different species of wood or leather, for example), which is etched into a plate. The plate is then "inked" with the appropriate graining compound ( a type of opaque ink), and the excess squee-gee'd - off. This removes the ink from the high places on the plate, but leaves it in the crevices. (So far this is similar to the wood-cut or lithographing process.)

Then a soft rubber roller is passed across the inked plate almost one complete revolution, picking-up the grain pattern.

Then, the roller is placed on the work-piece, and as it is rolled along, the inked pattern is deposited on the work. Pieces wider or longer than the plate must be done in several passes, and there are techniques and "blending papers" used to minimize any blending issues. Once the desired pattern has been applied, the work-peice is set-aside to dry. One the ink has dried, the work-piece is given a couple coats of clear lacquer to "fix" and seal the graining.

Grain-it has some neat video clips of the process; they claim it is the same as used by all the car-makers in the '30's - '40's. ( The car companies may have automated some of the process, but it was still done with plates and transfer rollers.)

All that said, what's on your D-24 is paint, and it should be treated very carefully. Do not use abrasive polishes or waxes containing abrasives on it: once you cut through the clear-coat, you will remove the grain pattern very quickly. You may find spots where the clear-coat and grain have been worn away down to the base color from wear (driver's elbow on the window-sill). Also try to protect it from sunlight as much as possible. Heat and UV rays are quite harmful to woodgrain as well as early Catalin or Tennite plastics used in '30's & '40's cars. When you have it out, try to park it in the shade, or use sun-shades. Basically any wax suitable for fine furniture should be safe; test in an inconspicous place first.

The same warning about heat and UV applies to preserving your original upholstery.

Good luck in keeping it preserved ! The graining is just about all gone from my '41 De Soto - the sunlight burned it all off the dash; there's a little bit left on some of the door garnish mouldings...

[Tom Skinner]

Go To www.oldmopar.com there they instuct you as how to wood grain your

Dash Board and other Interior Trims.

It is a Painting Process, NOT AN ART that doesnt take any real artistic skill.

I have done it and I can't even draw a straight line. (There are no straight lines in wood graining metal)

Good Luck

Tom

[claybill]

note ......on the window garnish, it seems logical to go horizontal on the top and bottom and go vertical on the sides..WRONG! ALL SIDES OF THE WINDOW MOULDING are horizontal. seems then that it was applied as one big flat surface, rather than following the contours edge by edge.

lots of plymouth collectors have given their 2 cents about woodgraining ideas...but so far no one can say, '" this IS how it was done".

i put out a plea for an assembly line man back in the 40's...who might actually have done it...no replies.

and now,...it most probably was a woman on the line!!!!

bill

[Young Ed]

Bill on my p15 the grain just went around the circle on the windshield and rear window mouldings. Makes it look more un-woodlike but that is how it was. I can't say for sure on the side window ones because they really didn't have any grain left on them.

[frankieflathead]

Thanx to all for your answers, but particularly to DeSoto Frank, who seemed to have the definitive answer for preserving the existing woodgrain, which is in near perfect shape. The seller said that the car had been garaged all it's life, and the condition of the dash, window moldings and interior fabrics were the main factor in convincing me that he wasn't lyin'!

[De Soto Frank]

Keep it out of the sun as much as you can (including curtains or shades on any garage windows !).

I once owned a '61 Belvedere that was a 32,000 mile garage queen when I got it in 1989. Being a naiive 20-something at the time, I kept it outdoors, and drove it a lot; in essence, I "used it up".

By the time I got rid of it (1996), I was really struck by how much the car had deteriorated, especially the interior, due to heat and sunlight, more than anything else.

As for "how was it done", I know there are a variety of DIY ways to do graining; but from what I've read & seen over the years, the plate-type transfer process (call it lithographing) is most likely how factories did their graining; whether it was MoPar dashes or Attwater-Kent radio faceplates.

Same goes for all the Marx and other "tin-plate toys" - the design was "printed" on the metal.

Good luck preserving your D-24; re-doing the graining on my De Soto will beone of the very last things that gets done to it, and I will be using a kit from Grain-it... a buddy is willing to go halves with me on their kit, as he wants to re-do the graining on his '51 Hudson.

I will check to see whether the grain "circled" with the garnish mouldings on my De Soto and some D-11 garnish I have... I'm pretty sure the grain curved around the corners, remaining parallel to the edges of the moulding.

My De Soto used two patterns: a straight-grain (silver/maple?) on perimeters, and a butt or burl pattern ( dark/ walnut?) on raised areas & centers. Very pretty when new.

De Soto Frank

[frankieflathead]

Yeah, Frank, the pattern and colors on the dash of the D24 are truly beautiful and I hope to be able to keep them that way. It's amazing how much damage UV rays can do! Regarding your previous post, I once saw an absolutely lovely original, unrestored 1940 LaSalle (I know, I know, it's not a MoPar!) that was very presentable, except for the plastic radio pre-set buttons. Their location, high up on the dash, made them especially vulnerable to the sun. They were just plain UG-LEEE! Do you suppose an accessory period sunvisor might help on the Dodge?

[De Soto Frank]

Anything that cuts down on sunlight blasting into the car will help; I've often though about installing UV-protective window film, to protect a nice interior.

Early car plastic was especially delicate; it's almost impossible to find a '39-'41 Chrysler with decent dash plastic - unless the car was garaged, the plastic looks like Dali's painting "Persistence of Memory" with the melting, dripping watches. I think '40 or '41 Fords had a lot of plastic on the dash...probably Old Henry's soy-bean plastic !

There was a green '41 Chrysler convertible on e-bay a year or two ago that had a beautiful original maroon & white marbelized plastic dash... never saw one so well-preserved !

Likewise '46 - '48 De Sotos with their dash knobs that had the Lucite discs - the Lucite cracks then crumbles, leaving only the metal hub at the center.

There's a '40 La Salle convertible around my way that is intact, but starting to look shabby; it has tired dash plastic too...

[frankieflathead]

Hi, DeSoto Frank and everyone........

After all this talk about the nice original woodgrain, I thought I would try to post a pic of the car and the interior.............Here they are: 55,500 original miles and aftermarket seat covers that had been on the car since new just removed! Color is "Lullaby Blue".

[claybill]

desoto frank....in my last email i notd that the wood grain does NOT go along parallel to the edges....on the side parts of the window garnish it is in fact HORIZONTAL. as would be if using real wood.

bill

[claybill]

the grain does not circle with the garnish moldiing...it is horizontal in every aspect on all 4 sides! check it out.

about the toys...they were painted BEFORE they were stamped!!! painted therefore on the flat metal then stamped.

bill

[BobT-47P15]

Here 's a pic I took not long ago of the dash in a 51 or 52 Dodge. It has a design on dash and window frames....not sure how to describe it. It probably uses the same process being described above. Looks kind of like a grain leather.