1946 Dodge fluid drive clutch replacement

[brooklynbeer]

Alright, moving along.    New pilot bearings installed, friction plate resurfaced and installed, clutch aligned and installed.  And just in time for the weekend to go arctic.  Got my parts book today and see I am missing a part.  It was not in the lower cover when I removed it either.

 

 clutch release bearing sleeve spring   part # 671915     

 

 

any idea who might have one ?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Try AMS Obsolete again... they show they have them.

[brooklynbeer]

15 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Try AMS Obsolete again... they show they have them.

 

Just read your post from 2014 fluid drive fluid.    "if the fluid drive unit is not leaking, then don't waste 3 hours changing it and getting a leak".   

 

Thank you for that.  I will not drain it. It is not leaking. I have no clue what is in it though either.  I have seen countless recommendations on what fluid to use and was told the best bang for the buck would be "SUPER TECH HEAVY DUTY TRACTOR HYDRAULIC AND TRANSMISSION OIL.  Walmart brand but no listing of weight.    Just that it spec's out on a good number of equipment with their type fluid listings.  What say you ?   

 

Going to get the fluid drive unit and clutch back in the car today. Rear mounts changed and bolts changed as well. Front pinion bearing on the way but I do have what is needed to change rear main this weekend in the warmth of a heated garage ! That emergency brake band looks like it could be interesting.  have a new one coming as well.

[brooklynbeer]

Also, when I removed the fluid drive unit from the crank there was no lock washers or star washers present behind the nuts.  I cannot find anything on line about this. Should there be a washer?

[Merle Coggins]

This is what was behind the nuts on mine.

Also, a quick reminder that the 8 studs and crank flange holes aren't symmetrical. One is slightly off so that it can only go back on one way. Hopefully you marked it before removal. Otherwise study the flange closely to determine which hole is different from the rest. Then study the studs to find the one that is off a bit. Line those two up for reassembly.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Merle Coggins

[brooklynbeer]

Nope, didn't know it had to be marked.  What car is yours on?  I put little star washers on I had.  I must have gotten really lucky or mine isn't like yours because with a little ingenuity, some wood block cribbing and shims, and a quick pump floor jack, I was able to get it mounted by myself pretty quickly. Never had an issue with alignment. I had the crank turned with 2 holes flat on the bottom and it slide right on with just a little wiggling of the jack.   Getting the nuts back on was actually the hardest part.  Too many broken fingers over the years. While your taking pictures, do you have one of the placement of the small clutch release bearing sleeve spring?  When things went bad with my trans the clutch fork actually came off the release bearing and was just flopping around.  Everything just let loose and both springs ended up who knows where. Didn't see one anywhere in the cover. Just pieces of the release bearing sleeve that grenaded. I can't find anything on the placement of this spring and don't see how it would attach to the fork or whatever.  

[Merle Coggins]

Mine is in a truck. Different bell housing, different throwout fork, different springs. 

 

I’d say you had it lined up by luck. Go buy yourself a lottery ticket... ?

[brooklynbeer]

Say that again !

[tom'sB2B]

I have star washers on mine.

[brooklynbeer]

On 1/15/2019 at 11:01 PM, Dodgeb4ya said:

You can leave the input shaft in the trans to replace the bearing the easy way described below. 

The other way is to completely disassemble the trans, dropping down the cluster gear which then lets you pull out the input shaft on your 3 speed to R&R  the bearing.

A lot of techie work if you've never done one.

So here's the way I do them if the trans just needs the front bearing.............

 

*Remove the retainer

*Remove the smaller shaft snap ring and spacer washer..

*Pull the shaft out as much as you can...... 1/32" to 1/16" is all you will get..

*Wedge and hold two screw drivers on each side of the bearing OD snap ring on the input shaft bearing... wedge outward on the bearing snap ring with both screw drivers while at the same time using a brass or dead blow hammer on the end of the input shaft..... light tapping the input shaft causing the the wedged bearing to walk outward and off the input shaft.

*You will have to use two thicker wedge tools as the bearing walks back off the input shaft and out of the case further and further till loose.

*Carefully lightly tap the new proper exact same  shielded bearing back on the input shaft.     Your old bearing should have a shield on the oil side (inner) of the trans and outer snap ring.

*Install the spacer washer, snap ring , gasket and retainer once the bearing is fully seated back on the input shaft.********

 *********Use care and no big hammer swings!*********

about to go out and change out the pinion bearing.  wanted to have the new one in hand first. I see on the new one the snap ring doesn't have holes to use snap ring pliers on it. Best way to remove the old snap ring ?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Both Snap rings on the bearing don't have holes....gotta use flat tipped snap ring pliers

[brooklynbeer]

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Both Snap rings on the bearing don't have holes....gotta use flat tipped snap ring pliers

Thank you. I ran and bought a pair and with just opening it up enough to start, the one end of the snap ring broke off.  So it was easy after that.  I took my bearing splitter and modified it a little bit with the help of some all thread rod from work and the bearing came off easy as pie.  Of course the one I was sent is the wrong size and nobody in town has one. I mic'd it and was able to find one online.  Now to search for the small snap ring. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

You think better than me! Good job.

[brooklynbeer]

2 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

You think better than me! Good job.

You can't save the old bearing like this because it makes 4 pinch points as the splitter isn't large enough in diameter but it doesn't matter with a change out. Can't find any part number on the old bearing and the 1207L bearing that is the replacement is discontinued. That one specs out the same as the factory installed. So another 1 week wait as it comes from palm Springs. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

MoPar 619167 was the OE #

[brooklynbeer]

20 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

MoPar 619167 was the OE #

I gave that number to Andy and got god knows what in return. The 1207L spec's out the same outside and inside as well as depth. Rock Auto was out.  I put word out to French Lake looking for the snap ring. Not much broke off the tip. Still over 3/4's intact and am sure it would work fine but lets see if a replacement can be found.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The original snap rings came in several thicknesses too as per the 1948 Dodge parts book.

All to control end play movement of the bearing to input shaft and input shaft fore aft movement in the trans case.

[brooklynbeer]

2 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

The original snap rings came in several thicknesses too as per the 1948 Dodge parts book.

All to control end play movement of the bearing to input shaft and input shaft fore aft movement in the trans case.

Mine mic'd out at .090 and I have no idea where that falls within the three sizes.  I have a feeling finding one is going to be pretty tough

[Dodgeb4ya]

.088.....091... .094 were the sizes... for the small snap ring on the input shaft.... you'll be good as is probably.

[brooklynbeer]

As I continue to wait for the replacement bearing after being sent wrong one I am getting linkage sorted out and cannot find the pictures I took before disassembly.  I took mine off when I didn't have too plus the clutch fork rod and spring were hanging when I got underneath.  Clutch fork had come off the sleeve and bearing and grenaded the sleeve.  All of that is being replaced.  Pretty sure I have it right but I am getting a pop from the large over center spring area when I depress the clutch pedal 2-3 inches. The trans is not in the car yet nor is the clutch fork connected to the clutch rod. And of course it goes to the floor and will not return.  What am I not seeing that makes the clutch pedal return and not stay on the floor?  What keeps the ball end of the clutch rod attached to the female ball socket of the clutch fork? And does the emergency/parking brake cable go under the center of the trans between the two mounts and cross member.? 

Edited February 2, 2019 by brooklynbeer
info added

[brooklynbeer]

well got trans all back together. Bearing, new retainer, new rear main seal. Everything going easy peezy.  Until I get to the parking / emergency brake band.  Was delivered last night. WRONG AGAIN.  I am having no luck with Bernbaums so today when it is going to be 72 in the garage I am waiting once again on the correct part. THREE TIMES now. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I never did like Burnbombs.

[Bryan]

On 1/13/2019 at 2:39 PM, Dodgeb4ya said:

As for preventing rocking of the FD driven plate.... yes the copper bellows and carbon graphite seals can crack or leak if care is not taken to prevent excessive tilt of the driven plate with or W/O the clutch cover installed.

You have to remember the minute you pull the transmission out of the FD coupling there now is no support and loss of alignment the driven plate and clutch pressure plate. 

The whole driven plate assembly now sags some what..... Just be careful handling the FD coupling while working on it. I have never used wedges on all the FD work I have ever done.

Be careful as to how tight the wedges are if you go that route as you could pull the FD inner ball bearing to the rear compressing the graphite ring and bellows seal.

That front ball bearing is a semi tight fit and can loosen with time...but shouldn't. be careful and gentle with any FD coupling..

Questions:  I just pulled the motor with bellhousing (clutch and FD together).   In the car I had removed the transmission, and was turning the motor with a breaker bar while removing valves. Could turning the engine w/o trans damage the Fluid Drive?  I'm only wanting to change the pilot bearings and replace the clutch assembly. Reckon I can see around the FD whether it's dry or not? If so I'm just going to top it off and leave it alone.  Any tips?

[Dodgeb4ya]

No damage will be done to the FD coupling by turning the crankshaft by hand.

This with the FD coupling still attached to the crankshaft and no transmission.

To replace the two pilot bushings deep in the FD and replace the clutch disc and clutch pressure plate wedges need to gently but firmly pushed in between the driven plate and coupling housing to prevent "rocking" the clutch driven plate and bellows/graphite seal ring.

Excessive rocking movement could crack one or both the graphite seal ring and or the copper bellows seal.

If the clutch driven plate on the FD coupling will clean up quickly by hand with say 80 grit sandpaper do that.

Otherwise to surface the driven plate it gets complicated very quickly if you don't have the knowledge and special service Miller tools to safely remove this plate.

As for the small and large pilot bushing replacement another tool will be needed to pull the bushings out...another to install them properly.

The factory bushings fit right and need no sizing after the correct installation.

The bushings are deep into the coupling hub.

Shown is the Miller Driver tool to install the bushings.

A Miller Tool set is used to service these bushings quickly and in a easy fashion.

They can be done by a good machine shop with a knowledgeable machinist too.

Finding NOS MoPar FD bushings could  be difficult.

After market might require some machine work

.A couple misc pics...

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Dodgeb4ya

[Bryan]

Could I use a Miller tool 609 (Fluid Drive clutch alignment tool) to stabilize the FD without the wedges?  My main goal today is to get the bare motor mounted on the motor stand. It's on the hoist right now.  I saw your comments about not needing to remove the bell housing but I'll need to, to send the bare block for hot tanking and magnafluxing.  Just wanting to set the FD assemby aside now and later remove the clutch for replacing. Will later try to replace the bushings.