Bell Housing 218

[weasel]

Does anyone sale a bell housing that converts a T5 to a stock 218 block?

Is there a year of tranny that will fit without changing the output shaft?

Edited July 17, 2017 by weasel

[Young Ed]

For a truck you can get a kit to convert your own. It's pretty straightforward. I bought a cheap set of transfer punches from harbor freight to mark the holes and then drilled them on Dads tabletop drill press. I believe I've heard if you currently have a 4spd 1-2 of the original holes are too close to the new ones and require more work. 

[weasel]

Is there a year of tranny that will fit without changing the output shaft?

Do you know who sales the kit?

[wayfarer]

Apparently you have not bothered to search this forum or you would have plenty of answers to your question as well as a couple of prime examples of how to do the job your self...

[weasel]

FOR YOUR INFORMATION,I DID SEARCH WITHOUT ANY LUCK. MAYBE WHEN YOU ARE 70 YEARS OLD YOU MAY NOT BE AS SMART AS YOU SOUND

Thanks for all the help

Edited July 17, 2017 by weasel

[lonejacklarry]

We're talking about a truck here?   Ok, I'll give you a couple hints:  The bellhousing design changed with the '54 Dodge pickup.  Among the differences is the fact that the later bellhousings are thicker than the earlier bellhousings.  Once you address that problem, then resist the urge to start changing input shafts.  Deal with the spline differences with a new custom clutch disc rather than chasing input shafts.

Oh yeah one more thing:  I used a hyrdaulic release bearing as I did away with floor pedals and used hanging pedals.  No linkage and no problems.  

Always, and I do mean always, is the fact that .one change will mean more changes down the road.

[59bisquik]

Lonejack... how long is your T5 input with the 54+ bellhousing? Do you have the pilot bearing in the crank or the flywheel? Where did you get the adapter to center the bearing retainer in the bellhousing?

When I talked to Langdons, the adapter ring he had was too thin for my bellhousing.

[lonejacklarry]

1 hour ago, 59bisquik said:

"Lonejack... how long is your T5 input with the 54+ bellhousing? Do you have the pilot bearing in the crank or the flywheel? Where did you get the adapter to center the bearing retainer in the bellhousing?"

 

I'll measure when I get home from the doctor later this afternoon.  The pilot busing is/will be in the crank.  It is the one that Tom Langdon sold me

"When I talked to Langdons, the adapter ring he had was too thin for my bellhousing."

Thin as in gauge of the metal or thin as in short front to back?  He sold me one that was for the '53 truck bellhousing and it worked fine.  He (as well as myself and others) did not know there was a difference in the bellhousings.  When it finally dawned on me that there was a difference in bellhousings, I went with the earlier one and the mounting problems as opposed to the later bellhousing and the too short input shaft.  

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by lonejacklarry

[59bisquik]

Thanks for getting the shaft length tonight.

As for the adapter ring, he did know of some differences between the 53 and 54 with mounting and gave me the measurement for the bellhousing bore. Mine appears to be about 1/16th bigger than what he mentioned. I will have to measure my bellhousing again with a caliper.  

 

[Don Coatney]

3 hours ago, weasel said:

FOR YOUR INFORMATION,I DID SEARCH WITHOUT ANY LUCK. MAYBE WHEN YOU ARE 70 YEARS OLD YOU MAY NOT BE AS SMART AS YOU SOUND

Thanks for all the help

Perhaps if you explained how and what you searched for some 70 year old might be able to help you. This issue has been discussed here many times in many threads. What key words did you use in your unlucky searches? What vehicle you are working on would be very helpful as in car or truck.

[lonejacklarry]

4 hours ago, 59bisquik said:

Thanks for getting the shaft length tonight. 

 

The length of the spline from the front surface of the T5 to the end of the shaft is 7 1/4".    The shaft is 1" diameter and the splined portion is 9/16" diameter.  The T5 is a Borg Warner out of an S10 pickup.  The spline number is 14 or 15 (it's tough to get old).  What I did was do all my measurements several times.  Then I did them again.  Finally, I went to a clutch rebuilder in Kansas City with my old disc and pressure plate.  The stock 10" will be fine for what little HP I'll be dealing with and I had them make a disc with the spline count and diameter to match the input shaft.  They had to move the center part in a little to make the splines center where they should be.

Part 2 was them building me a 10" diaphragm pressure plate so i could use a hydraulic release bearing.  Again, I'm not working with 700 HP here so it ought to work fine.

The real pisser of this whole deal was that the clutch rebuilders charged me $150 for the engineering, clutch disc, and pressure plate.  A stock disc and PP  would have cost more, i think.

[59bisquik]

Excellent... the shaft I was planning on was based off a 53 and would of been too short. Do you have the bellhousing bore size available?

[lonejacklarry]

2 minutes ago, 59bisquik said:

  Do you have the bellhousing bore size available?

Not right at hand but it is a stock '53 truck bellhousing.  The T5 with the Langdon supplied bushing made for a sliding fit.  The tolerance there and with the pilot bushing .is important  because if is sloppy then the transmission will tend to barf 5th gear according to my transmission guru.  He also suggested that the centerlines of all of those whirling parts must be the same or it will make for a noisy, short lived transmission.

Before I forget it again--All of this transmission stuff I've referred to is a NWC transmission.

I'll get you the bellhousing bore size tomorrow.  Navigating on a walker over less than golf course like conditions is a temporary challenge.  Another reason I should have been doing all this assembly in my kitchen.

[59bisquik]

I measured my bellhousing at 8 5/16 deep and the bore of 4.740

Wait a minute, yours is a 53 bell housing with the ears or a 54 up with the mounting pads and crossmember?

Edited July 18, 2017 by 59bisquik

[lonejacklarry]

7 minutes ago, 59bisquik said:

I measured my bellhousing at 8 5/16 deep  

Is that from a '54, and up, truck?  I'm operating on memory here again but, as I remember, the earlier bellhousing is a little over an inch shorter than the later ones.  The input shaft, accordingly, then is about an inch too short for the job.  

Insert your own witticism here,

[59bisquik]

Yes, mine is a 54+ truck housing but for a V8.

 

[lonejacklarry]

1 hour ago, 59bisquik said:

Yes, mine is a 54+ truck housing but for a V8. 

As my old mother used to say " That's a whole different kettle of fish".

[59bisquik]

L6 or V8 still look the same with mounts and such. The starter is just in a different location. Not sure of the bores are the same until I pull my old engine and tranny out.

[lonejacklarry]

Is that what the additional hole is for?  My I6 bellhousing has a hole for the starter and just above it and slightly outboard is another hole with smaller holes on either side.

If that makes any sense, fine.  If not, I'll take a picture and ask again.  Thanks.

Edited July 18, 2017 by lonejacklarry

[59bisquik]

The starter is mounted low and right in front of the clutch arm. Not sure which holes you are talking about?

[wayfarer]

Some of the truck bells, maybe around 1956-'60??, have both the L6 and V8 block bolt patterns.

I started a thread over on the car side in an attempt to catalogue some of the critical dimensions for bellhousings that could be useful for the t5 swap.

If anyone has a bell laying loose please add whatever info you can to the thread.

[59bisquik]

I have a spare 57 car housing laying around. I will head over and comment.

Edited July 19, 2017 by 59bisquik

[lonejacklarry]

On 7/17/2017 at 7:25 PM, 59bisquik said:

Excellent... the shaft I was planning on was based off a 53 and would of been too short. Do you have the bellhousing bore size available?

Sorry about the delay.  I measured it this morning and it appeared to be 4.750 as read on my Harbor Freight electric caliper.  

I think I confused you with my bellhousing saga--I'm using a '53 (thinner) and it has the ear type mounts as opposed to the '54 (thicker) which has bottom mounts.  While I'm here are the mounting pads the same with the bottom mount as the side mount type?

Regarding the holes I mentioned-  looking front to back on the driver's side:  the starter is high on the driver's side of the belhousing.  The other "hole" I mentioned as looking from the same spot is lower and further outboard.  

[59bisquik]

The 53 and 54 bellhousing are completely different. On the 53, the master cylinder and other stuff mount to it and the ears bolt to the frame rails. The 54+ mount to the crossmember on the bottom of the bellhousing. 

My engine machinist said it would be no problem to make my adapter ring and pilot bushings etc. I will post up when I get closer. I am still waiting on  engine work and pistons.

Edited July 26, 2017 by 59bisquik

[johnsartain]

weasel...

I wrote up my experience in adapting a Dodge NP435 from a 89 D100 pickup in a different thread. No pictures but i am totally open to any discussion of it. Only gotcha was I needed to use the Throw out bearing from the 50 Dodge and combine it with the 89 dodge 10" clutch kit. The output shaft was the correct length for me. Your 54 may be a lot different.