No provision for cotter pins in bushings?

[PatS....]

In the above illustration, the nuts on the spindle bushings (17 and 60) are castle nuts and there are cotter pins shown (18 and 47)for the bushings.

I just noticed on my Chrysler, the nuts are not castle nuts and the bushing is not drilled for a cotter pin:

The originals that I removed were the same...no provision for a cotter pin. They are (now) torqued to spec and have Loc-tite but I wonder if anyone else has cotter pins or is mine abnormal?

[eric wissing]

Pat, mine also have no provision for cotter pins. Can you imaging these things ever backing out? Eric

[PatS....]

Pat, mine also have no provision for cotter pins. Can you imaging these things ever backing out? Eric

Well, Mr Murphy keeps VERY close to my world, so I DO worry

[randroid]

Gents,

IMHO, the next move would be to buy castle nuts, or at least run a lock nut snug to the existing nut. You'd need to drill the bushing rod (#48) for a castle nut and I can only imagine it's a hardened piece which could be a bitch to drill, but worth every minute of blue language and skinned knuckles necessary to get the job done.

I know I'm anal about some things, such as I never use a cotter pin or nut twice. Cotter pins are soft and so cheap it gives me a better peace of mind to 86 the old ones, while a nut will loose a surprising amount of its clamping ability at a given torque after the first use, although if it's a machined part such would not be the case.

This is definitely one of those jobs I'm happy is yours and not mine because if it were mine I'd have to do it, but, sort of like applying primer under Rustoleum, I'd sleep better at night.

Sweet dreams,

-Randy

[Lou Earle]

Why not get nylock nuts and install replacing orginnal castlle nut??

[Don Coatney]

Pat;

Your setup uses internal star lock washers behind the nuts. No cotter pin is required. On the Dodge drawing there are no star washers as a cotter pin is used. If you atempt to drill a hole for a cotter pin you may drill into the grease relief hole rendering the piece usless.

[Plymouthy Adams]

For what it is worth, reading the above got me thinking, so I went to the shop and lo and behold items 48 and 19 on my 1941 Dodge are drilled and use a cotter pin/ castle nuts. (items 18 and 47) If you should be very apprehensive about all this..maybe using one from an earlier car would be of help..P/N 861 214 is for the drilled ones and are the same part number for upper and lower application.

IF you should want to drill your original bolts and with regard to Coatney's advise about damage to lube hole etc..remove the zerk fitting..run a stiff wire to the bottom and see if you indeed have enough dead space to support drilling the hole. This could be the easiest step to your peace of mind. I personally would look at this route..hey its the way John Wayne would have done it...!!

[Young Ed]

I wouldn't touch it. The old ones you took off were all there with no cotter pin so it obviously stays together.

[Normspeed]

I believe my 53 had no cotter pins, just the star lock washers that Don mentioned. I'm with Dodgepu1946. Good enough for Walter P, good enough for me.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I tried to address the concerns Pat had with MURPHY..he apparently wants to use a cotter pin...and uless the pin happens to be within the void of the grease hole..there is no reason he cannot have peace of mind by drilling and using castle nut and cotter pins. The fact that other cars have them clearly point more than one method is all...that is why I use in capital letters the word IF

My book that has the P15 and the P17-P25 Plymouths do show a picture of both being used...so techinically it is your call what ones you feel better with. Neither is wrong it appears.

[PatS....]

Seeing as the old ones had no cotter pins and I had to use the impact to get them off, I'm going to leave them alone but keep an eye on them as well as everything else for the first year the thing is on the road (hopefully that will be before oil is obsolete).

Tim, I really don't want to use a cotter pin, it's just I wondered about the fact the diagram shows them and I don't have any.

I am an amateur and I wonder about hurtling down the highway at 65 on a front end rebuilt by an amateur, so I wanna make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed

[Plymouthy Adams]

So you gave MURPHY the boot...good...going with stock really should never be a worry...

[PatS....]

Actually, he is never far away from me, but I'm not easily intimidated

[De Soto Frank]

Pat,

If you want to, you could back the nuts off and put some Threadlocker or Loctite on them, then reassemble...

If memory serves me correctly, the nuts for the (new)bushings for my '41 De Soto are slightly "squished" ( oval through the threaded hole), and I have use a wrench to turn them up after the threads have caught...

I think the reason the sheet shows castle-nuts and cotter pins is because that's how they were put together when this particular front-end debuted in '41, and Chrysler Corp basically used it with very few changes through 1954; it probably wasn't worth their while to update the drawing.

I would imagine they eliminated the castle-nut and cotter-pin to save money in the manufacturing & assembly line process; don't have to cross-drill the pin, have a machine/person to insert & spread the pin, etc.

The nut & internal star-washer must have done the job acceptably for cheaper...

Can't blame you for wanting to make sure it's safe...

Frank McMullen