51Meadowbrook Posted April 1, 2017 Report Posted April 1, 2017 A few weeks ago I change the A few weeks ago I change the oil in my 51 Dodge using 10W-30 using 10W-30 motor oilafter driving about 50 miles started losing after driving about 50 miles started losing oil pressure limped her back home. I changed the oil to straight 30 weight detergent oil and had 40 to 45 pounds of pressure back just cruising around town. Today I cruised into town approximately 18 miles on the interstate got up to highway speeds and when I stopped at a red light I started losing started losing oil pressure again! Not sure if I screwed up the oil pump or what?! Any ideas? Thanks in advance Quote
knuckleharley Posted April 1, 2017 Report Posted April 1, 2017 I am guessing the problem is the modern high-detergent oil loosened up decades of sludge that clogged the oil passages and oil filter. I had a similar thing happen with a old tractor I bought. The day I bought it the oil looked new on the dipstick,and it would sit right there and hold 45 psi oil pressure at idle. I bought it and took it home,and used to to run a bush hog around the edge of my property maybe twice a year for maybe a hour each time,and to move cars,engines,and other things around the yard using a boom on the back. Most of the time when I ran it,it was for periods no longer than 10-15 minutes at a time. One day I am running the bush hog and noticed the oil pressure dropping. It finally dropped down to about 5 psi before I shut it off,thinking "Dayum! The seller had filled this thing full of STP ho show oil pressure so he could sell it,and now I am going to need to put a crank kit in it to keep using it!" Since I didn't have the money or time to put a crank kit in it right then,I decided to try changing the oil and filter,to see if that helped. The oil was filthy when I drained it out,and when I unscrewed the oil filter it was so heavy it felt like it was full of lead. So I bought a couple of new oil filters and a case of 40 wt non-detergent oil,and changed the oil. It built right up to 50 psi of oil pressure and just sat right there and held it at idle. I used it for a while and noticed the oil pressure dropping again,so I changed the filter to get it back up to 50 psi. I ended up changing the filter a total of 3 times and adding a quart of 40 wt non-detergent oil each time,and never again had any problems with it. The previous owner had changed the oil and used high detergent 10w-30 in it,and when it started losing oil pressure he panicked and put it up for sale after changing the oil again. The tractor is a 1957 model,and they were made to run on non-detergent oil. Non-detergent oil is not supposed to keep dirt in suspension like modern high-detergent oil. I was supposed to drop to the base pan and be drained out when the oil was changed. I was lucky because mine was a OHV 4 Cylinder with a screw on modern oil filter that captured the gun while allowing a little oil to pass to keep the bearings lubed. Be prepared for other people to tell you I am full of crap,and it is perfectly safe to just swap from non-detergent 30 and 40 wt oil to multi-grade lighter Hi-Detergent oil without flushing the engine,dropping and cleaning the base pan,etc,etc,etc. MAYBE even I could have gotten away with running 10w-30 high detergent oil if I had just changed the oil and filter a few more times? I don't know. I did have a pretty good idea I could just use the oil the tractor was designed to use and not have any more problems,though. 3 Quote
51Meadowbrook Posted April 1, 2017 Author Report Posted April 1, 2017 Whart brand oil do you use that's not detergent oil?? Quote
51Meadowbrook Posted April 1, 2017 Author Report Posted April 1, 2017 I know with that 10w 30 oil it was leaking like a siv! All over ! Hopefully it hasn't done any permanent damage to the engine! Quote
1949 Wraith Posted April 1, 2017 Report Posted April 1, 2017 Tractor supply company carries some non detergent single weights up to 30 http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-non-detergent-oil-sae-30-1-qt?cm_vc=IOPDP1 Quote
knuckleharley Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, 51Meadowbrook said: Whart brand oil do you use that's not detergent oil?? Non-detergent oil is just oil without detergent additives in it. IIRC,high-detergent oil (AFAIK,there was never any low-detergent oil) first became accepted around 1955 or so. ALL cars,trucks,and tractors built prior to 1950 were built to use non-detergent oil because that was the only oil being manufactured. I generally buy mine by the case from Amazon because I lose a hour and a half out of my time to drive to town and back to buy it,and it's usually cheaper from amazon,anyway. https://www.amazon.com/Accel-22242-SAE-Non-Detergent-Motor/dp/B0052KY266/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491090882&sr=8-1&keywords=40+wt+non-detergent+oil I run 30 wt in the winter and 40 wt in the summer. If you live in a town you can buy it at any NAPA,Advance Auto,etc,etc,etc. btw,if you buy your oil locally,call NAPA or wherever you are going to buy the oil and pick up a few oil filters while you are there. Change your filter as well as your oil,and clean out your cannister before installing a new filter. Remove your spark plugs and spin your engine with the starter until you see oil pressure built up on the oil pressure gauge.Put the plugs back in,hook up the plug wires,and start it up and keep an eye on the oil pressure gauge. It should be fine. Keep a eye on it as you drive around,and if/when you see the oil pressure dropping again,change the filter again and add a quart of oil. BTW,the bad news is nothing I have written so far is going to eliminate the leaks. Chances are you created them with the high detergent oil,and you are going to have to replace the oil pan gasket and the front and rear seals. IF you have to do all that anyhow,go ahead and run some engine flush through it,and clean out the pan and the oil pump while you are replacing the front and rear seals. You can go ahead and switch over to 10w-30 high detergent oil in the winter,and 10w-40 high detergent oil in the winter after you do that. The purpose of continuing to run non-detergent oil in these old engines is to keep from busting all that sludge loose and causing leaks as well as clogging your oil galleries. Edited April 2, 2017 by knuckleharley 2 Quote
51Meadowbrook Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 Thanks for the help !! I ordered a case of that oil and some new filters hopefully it'll be like it was before I changed the oil lol Quote
DrDoctor Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 51Meadowbrook, Yet again, I must agree w knuckleharley, because he knows of what he speaks. While I don’t know what all of the alphabet short-hands mean, he’s absolutely correct about the detergent/non-detergent oil. The non-detergent oils have to be changed more often, and the filter along with it. That’ll keep the crud out of the engine. And, not to belabor the point, but I’ve never known anyone who switched from non-detergent oil to detergent oil without encountering similar issues as you have. So, I don’t think I’d despair too much, at least not yet. Just follow knuckleharley’s advice, and I think you’ll be fine. Best regards . . . Edited April 18, 2017 by DrDoctor 1 Quote
classiccarjack Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 Keep us posted on how things turn out. 1 Quote
Young Ed Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 Personally I think I'd continue using detergent and changing the oil frequently. Buy cheap stuff since you won't get many miles out of it. Also make sure your oil isn't getting diluted with gas from a bad fuel pump or other issue. 2 Quote
51Meadowbrook Posted April 7, 2017 Author Report Posted April 7, 2017 Well it looks like the engine has permanent damage to it so I'll have to pull it an rebuild it. Quote
classiccarjack Posted April 7, 2017 Report Posted April 7, 2017 23 minutes ago, 51Meadowbrook said: Well it looks like the engine has permanent damage to it so I'll have to pull it an rebuild it. That is a real bummer.... Quote
knuckleharley Posted April 7, 2017 Report Posted April 7, 2017 1 hour ago, 51Meadowbrook said: Well it looks like the engine has permanent damage to it so I'll have to pull it an rebuild it. Why do you say that? What is it doing,making noises? What kind of noises? Have you verified the oil pump is pumping? Enquiring minds,and all dat. Quote
51Meadowbrook Posted April 8, 2017 Author Report Posted April 8, 2017 1 hour ago, knuckleharley said: Why do you say that? What is it doing,making noises? What kind of noises? Have you verified the oil pump is pumping? Enquiring minds,and all dat. It's making some serious squealing and metal to metal noises. I have not pulled the oil pump. And not sure what to look for if it isn't working . I did put a stethoscope on the oil pump and could hear movement my oil release valve may be stuck too. Quote
knuckleharley Posted April 8, 2017 Report Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, 51Meadowbrook said: It's making some serious squealing and metal to metal noises. I have not pulled the oil pump. And not sure what to look for if it isn't working . I did put a stethoscope on the oil pump and could hear movement my oil release valve may be stuck too. Seems to me at a bare minimum that you are going to have to drop your oil pan to check the bearings and to check/clean/replace the oil pump. You might also try to blow compressed air through the oil galleries on the side of the block to see if there are any blockages. BTW,if you drop the oil pump to clean/check/rebuild/replace it,make sure you pack the area where the gears are with something like wheel bearing grease before you button things up under there. Don't worry about it interacting with the oil. No problem. Edited April 8, 2017 by knuckleharley 1 Quote
51Meadowbrook Posted April 18, 2017 Author Report Posted April 18, 2017 Can that oil pan be dropped with out pulling the motor ? Quote
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