Rotten_Spokes Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 It's been a while since I last posted but after having a good friend who knows everything there is about engines and has the correct equipment looked over my block told me how bad off it is. Luckily I do have another block that hopefully (even tho it looks worse than the first) will be the one that gets put back in the truck. The truck is also stuffed inside for the winter we had to flatten the front tires to get the thing to fit in the dinky garage. This nice clean block is the junk one cylinders are worn and it was already bored to the max. This mess is hopefully a good block even tho it looks awful inside. Split valves and water in the cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 Well you won't know until you have it apart cleaned and measured, but it might be fine. Truck is a good candidate for a nice 265 with dual carbs and exhaust....keep us posted on your progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 That old engine had one bad azz burned exhaust valve! The truck must have been one real chugging machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 You could have the first block you show sleeved if the other proves to be bad also. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten_Spokes Posted December 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Rockwood said: Well you won't know until you have it apart cleaned and measured, but it might be fine. Truck is a good candidate for a nice 265 with dual carbs and exhaust....keep us posted on your progress I wish I could dual carb it but being a cabover this has an updraft setup a standard manifold won't fit under the cab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Well in that case, how about a turbo charger.....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59bisquik Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Rotten_Spokes said: I wish I could dual carb it but being a cabover this has an updraft setup a standard manifold won't fit under the cab Hmmmmm interesting setup. I am wondering if you could modify that manifold to run two updrafts just like the guys modify the stock manifolds for standard carbs. It looks like a standard manifold flipped upside down. Second... on that nice clean block, how far has it been bored already? When talking to George the other day I was surprised to hear he has a .080 over bore on his. Cool project by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten_Spokes Posted December 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 minute ago, 59bisquik said: Hmmmmm interesting setup. I am wondering if you could modify that manifold to run two updrafts just like the guys modify the stock manifolds for standard carbs. It looks like a standard manifold flipped upside down. Second... on that nice clean block, how far has it been bored already? When talking to George the other day I was surprised to hear he has a .080 over bore on his. Cool project by the way! Thanks it's .60 over but he checked the block and any bigger would cut into the coolant jackets plus I don't know where I'd find .80 over pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59bisquik Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I would contact George Asche or Tim Kingsbury... They are a wealth of knowledge on this engine. George has one with the .080 overbore. George also modifies manifolds and could probably hook you up. I just talked to him last week. He is a really nice guy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 hour ago, 59bisquik said: I would contact George Asche or Tim Kingsbury... They are a wealth of knowledge on this engine. George has one with the .080 overbore. George also modifies manifolds and could probably hook you up. I just talked to him last week. He is a really nice guy! Yes you are correct and any long block with an original 3 3/8 bore can easily go out .100, which incidentally would end up being 238, 250 or 265 pistons at .040 overbore, lots of room and meat to go up to .100 over on a 3 7/16 hole, pistons becomes the trick with big overbores, not overheating issues..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Going .80 over and beyond is just asking for trouble, the more you cut away the cyl walls, the more your going to have heating issues and I would assume at some point your going to have even more headgasket issues then the rest of us. It's not like the blocks are scarce, try and find a clean or non seized 251/65 and start your build from there. The machining costs alone on yours look like they warrant a new block to start with. Just because someone else did it, doesn't mean it's recommended...hence the story everyone's parents told us of the kid jumping off the bridge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 minute ago, 4mula-dlx said: Going .80 over and beyond is just asking for trouble, the more you cut away the cyl walls, the more your going to have heating issues and I would assume at some point your going to have even more headgasket issues then the rest of us. It's not like the blocks are scarce, try and find a clean or non seized 251/65 and start your build from there. The machining costs alone on yours look like they warrant a new block to start with. Just because someone else did it, doesn't mean it's recommended...hence the story everyone's parents told us of the kid jumping off the bridge Absolutely not true at all, for example, a long block with 3 3/8 bore could go .100 over, and still be speced for .060 over 250 pistons. Going over .060 on a 3 7/16 hole is not a problem either. I am interested though on how and what you draw your experience from? I tend to believe the AoK folks who have so many years experience in building these engines. The overheating is 1 issue they say belongs to some other engines, maybe Flathead ford or Stovebolt Chevvys. IIf you are an engine builder by trade, then perhaps you can share with us data of your prementioned hypothesis. I do agree with 1 of your conclusions, these blocks are not overly scarce or rare. Again on large oversizes, .060 and bigger, the pistons are getting harder to source, getting larger PISTONS is the challenge. At any rate, not a bad practice to use and build blocks with minimal over boring for most members on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Driving a heavy Dodge truck you don't want any cooling system issues. Pedal to the metal on most all hills causes a lot of heat in these old flatheads. More meat in the walls is good. I have several heavy trucks and have spent many hours in them .Don't take a chance.with fast heat exchange through too thin cylinder walls.. You might be watching that temp gauge too much! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Dodgeb4 said it perfectly, and I don't have to spend every day building engines to know that once you thin out the walls they can't dissipate heat as well as a thicker wall, and the more strain you put on the engine not built for those tolerances, the more you lose reliability. I see this reoccurring reference to "some members", so if a quality build and taking the more reliable route is the less experienced, then count me in that crowd. And as per matter of fact lots of people will tell you those engines were prone to heating issues and head gasket issues, and this comes from people that worked on them new in the dealership...like my uncle who was a Chrysler mechanic for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 43 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said: Driving a heavy Dodge truck you don't want any cooling system issues. Pedal to the metal on most all hills causes a lot of heat in these old flatheads. More meat in the walls is good. I have several heavy trucks and have spent many hours in them .Don't take a chance.with fast heat exchange through too thin cylinder walls.. You might be watching that temp gauge too much! Bob, these brutes with there havey heavy casting, water distribution tubes, going up to .100 probably would not produce any overheating problems. Poor water jacket flow, inferior rad construction, water pump issues, poor timing, certainly will. I am only stating this , looking for factual based answers and scenarios. Yes in the case of the OP, he has another potential block, and hopefully it's good. Now I may have missed the info, but what size if the engine, when measure how much over bore are we dealing with, how much cylinder taper, and how much are they out of round. How much to clean up the bores? So a lot of info missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 A 1-1/2 or two ton truck weighing 8-10,000 lbs or more with a load is way different than driving a light PU or a car. The engines used are the 236/251. Not a lot of H-power pushing a heavy truck using a 4 or 5 speed with a 2 speed rear axle.A heavier truck engine runs maxed out like a boat engine... loaded most of the time creating a lot of heat. Don't take mass out of the block In the heavier trucks a lot of the time you drive with the gas pedal down.... all the way down up any medium or long grades... Combustion pressures are way up as are combustion temperatures.... big time when driving any loaded truck. .So down shifting/split shifting all needed to keep your speed up going up grades...any excessive over heating and the engine might end up with burn't exhaust valves scored pistons, damaged ring lands etc or worse a bearing making some dreadful noise.. I know how to drive and have driven all the medium to H-duty dodge trucks . You don't want to lug em... don't over rev em if no governor either. They do the job fine for what they are. Drive them right and they last long and run fine. I've never had an issue with any of mine running hot but mine are all sodium valve /forged piston rebuilds... .030" over bore always engines...always went by what the books and machine shop taught me. Has never let me down. Soooooooo....I say.. On engine machining for the heavier trucks keep the heads thick and the cylinder walls thick... .060" is a safe truck max over bore Keep the valve margins thick as designed ..new valves A light car or PU bore the hell out of it if you feel the need.... for work horse engines I say don't... You don't want to EVER break down in a big truck! It'll cost you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten_Spokes Posted December 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I'm not going to go over .60 on this other block hopefully I won't even have to bore it I just want it to go from pointo A to point B this thing will probably never tow again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 If your going to go to all the work to rebuild, a bore is 99% of the time a must, or you can suffer oil burning and power loss once warmed up, and in a big truck like that, you need all the help you can get likely. It's a bit more money in labour, but the parts are identical in price, and a bored engine is more of a gurantee. I didn't bore my block because it cleaned up so well, but in reality I was about .005 to .006 over the tolerances for stock parts, and I notice a but of oil burning off the hop on mine, and that was the only step I skipped, every other parts was machined and changed....but hind site is 20/20 and if I could go back I would....although if I could go right to the start....Id be driving a Dakota with a PH body on it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten_Spokes Posted December 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I know this other engine will need bored worded that wrong, couple of the cylinders are rusted I'm pretty sure it's factory bore hopefully .30 over will work for it. I also wish these blocks were as common as you guys say; that doesn't seem to be true around here there's only one on Craigslist near me it's a 265 for $500. It also doesn't help that people around here assume that anything old is worth thousands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Offer $300 and take a chance...265 is a great start to a build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten_Spokes Posted December 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, 4mula-dlx said: Offer $300 and take a chance...265 is a great start to a build I'm guessing it will but will my updraft manifold from my 236 bolt onto a 265. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 The 265 will add quite a bit more power and torque. Manifolds will bolt right on it and you will get a full flow oil filter system too.. I'd carefully check it out first before buying it...no block cracks... no spun bearings ... Ask if it's a runner etc. If it's out of a car it will have a "Spitfire" name cast onto the head. Serial # on the block if a Chrysler engine will start out C52.../ C53... or C54.... I'd rebuild it before any 236 or 251 engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 100% agree...if the block in the picture was what I had to work with, and the 265 block was in better shape, all it takes is a phone call to get the initial info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 14 hours ago, Rotten_Spokes said: I know this other engine will need bored worded that wrong, couple of the cylinders are rusted I'm pretty sure it's factory bore hopefully .30 over will work for it. I also wish these blocks were as common as you guys say; that doesn't seem to be true around here there's only one on Craigslist near me it's a 265 for $500. It also doesn't help that people around here assume that anything old is worth thousands. Yes the 265 is worth investigating, slightly warmed up should yield 150 hp to the crank and plenty of torque. I also have a few in the wings, this i is on a combine at a relatives, my father in law also has a good running 265 on another cockshutt combine, I may attain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten_Spokes Posted December 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Well I think I missed out on that 265 I can't find the ad anymore; you snooze you lose I guess. Is what it is just wish I could find a decent motor that ran I could just toss it in the truck the only ones I ever find are locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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