hard starting in cold weather..217 spark upgrades for better starting

[cruz]

getting cold up hear in montana..my 52 cambridge isn't  wanting to start.. I've read about single wire  alternators ..any up grades available for a six volt system..my neighbor told me bosch makes a hotter coil and plug set..brings it up to 8 volt for starting ?? any info ...thanks

[55 Fargo]

How cold is it getting?

Maybe your battery and cables aren't up to snuff? A well charged 6 volt battery and decent 2/0 cables with good clean connections.

8 volt coil, well how are you going to go 8 volts from a 6 volt system?

Gm 1 wire alts can be bought for 6 vlt pos grnd, if you are having an issue with the genny and regulator on yours.

How about a block heater or magnetic oil pan heater, would that help?

[desoto1939]

yes there are 8/6 volt battery combinations that are available.  But what do you mean by getting hard to start.  I am 65 years old and I have a hard time getting my body and my engine starting in my personal body everyday, all kidding aside.

 

Please explain the hard starting situations. Has the car been sitting for several days or only hours. Has the gas in the line possibly drained back down to the Fuel pump.  Do you have an electric pump at the rear of the car near the gas tank.  It is hard starting after the engine has been hot. How old are the plugs, cap, rotor point condenser and wires. Do you have the proper 0/1 gage battery cables is there a good clean ground strap on the car how are the battery connections any loose.

 

Pleas provide more input so we can all try to help with your problem.  Also how cold is cold please put a number for us.

 

Rich Hartung and the rest of the Forum members.

[William Davey]

In 1965, my 1947 Dodge Club Coupe (present from Grandpa) was the only car in the family that would start on a 39* below zero day in upstate NY (way upstate, not White Plains). My point is a 6 volt system started cars for many decades before 12 volt systems became common in the mid '50's. As Tim and Don always point out, you need fuel, spark at the right time and compression and it has to start. Try to figure out which is missing or degraded  with your car.

[dpollo]

Chrysler sixes had a reputation for being hard to start in cold and damp circumstances. It may be a bad rap but there are things that can be done :  First thing to check is the compression. If it is too low, there is no way to make the engine start other than pushing the car.  Next check the battery condition and the cables and consider using a  battery tender which keeps the battery fully charged.  Also the weight of the oil.  30 would be a bit stiff in a Montana winter.  Plugs and points should be in good condition and correctly gapped.  There is really no need to go to 8 volt or 12 volt . These are often stop-gap measures which mask other problems, not the least of which could be a lack of fuel or a choke which is not operating correctly.  I  currently have five vehicles which have an assortment of flathead six engines and are all six volt systems. I have rarely had trouble getting them started and when I have had troubles it usually involved dampness and old ignition leads. 

[55 Fargo]

Block heaters make a big difference, as well as thin oil for the severe cold weather. Good battery, and cables and an engine in good tune, compression fuel and spark and you got fire... You guys don't have cold like this place, -30 to -40 overnight lows every winter.

A modern vehicle without a block heater would be dicey in our climate conditions a lot of the times.

Synthetic oil a good battery really help with extreme cold.

The OP is eluding to cool weather  I would guess, not winter snow and ice cold conditions, but I could be wrong.....

[Dave72dt]

I haven't heard of a way to make a 6 volt battery think it's an 8 volt and if using an 8 volt battery and not adjusting the regulator settings for 8 volt, your charging system will only charge it to 6 volts and you end up with battery that's never fully charged  Haven't heard of everything so I suppose it's possible.  I also tend to think that resetting a reg to 8 volt charging spec may put more stress on the gen and could very well be wrong there too.

I suppose a single wire alt set for 8 volts, an 8 v batt may help, may blow a few bulbs, may need some resistors installed while you're at it.  Heavier and clean cables, good ground, a 6v with higher amp ratings may be the simpler and better choice.

What part of the starting sequence seems to be the problem?  Does the starter need work and turns over slow? Ignition ?

[rb1949]

I would say MT is a bit more than 'cool'. Good advice making sure everything is up to par, before it gets cold. Hope my preparations for winter garage parking are suitable. Fuel treatment, Keep battery charged and the occasional start-up, move it up and down the drive. Feb-Mar is the worst sub-arctic period. The neatest trick I ever did, one night it was -65° .......... went outside to blow bubbles. They instantly froze to fragile glass like globes. Try it sometime, but it has to be COLD.

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, rb1949 said:

I would say MT is a bit more than 'cool'. Good advice making sure everything is up to par, before it gets cold. Hope my preparations for winter garage parking are suitable. Fuel treatment, Keep battery charged and the occasional start-up, move it up and down the drive. Feb-Mar is the worst sub-arctic period. The neatest trick I ever did, one night it was -65° .......... went outside to blow bubbles. They instantly froze to fragile glass like globes. Try it sometime, but it has to be COLD.

Yes it certainly is not a hotspot, especially the northeast corner of the state, near Glascow.

I was thinking around the Hot Springs area might be a lot more moderate and it certainly is compared to other parts of the state..

I have never seen temps anywhere near -65, even in my area of Manitoba.

I have experienced -40 or so with a windchill of -52, and even that is not an every winter thing. Plenty of -40 to -45 with a windchill and -35 for the air temp itself.

I was referring also more to the west coast climate as compared to Montana or Manitoba. Indiana, cold winters, but nothing like Montana North Dakota or Manitoba...

Edited November 12, 2016 by Rockwood

[desoto1939]

Everyone is providing some input but the original poster has either not read our replies or has not been back on the forum.  We need his input so I guess all we can do is hope he has solved his issue.

 

Rich Hartung

[iowa51]

Growing up on the farm the tractors and vehicles we used during the winter had a "tank type" heater that was plumbed into the heater hoses. Circulted hot water through the engine block and heater core. Almost instant heat to defrost the windows and easier starting. Thinner oil than normal (10w-30) also helped.

 

Home   /   Auto & ATV   /   Auto Maintenance & Parts   /   Engine Heaters   /   Kat's Circulating Tank Heater

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

KAT'S CIRCULATING TANK HEATER

Online Item #:  0000000047511

 

 

$49.95

 

 

 Type  1000 watt  1500 watt 

Qty:

 

 

 

ADD TO CART

Express Checkout

 

 

 

 

 

• Description
• More Info

• Heats & circulates the coolant in an engine for easy cold-weather starting
• Helps protect your engine from damage
• Made of die-cast aluminum to resist corrosion
• Thermostatically controlled 135-175 degrees F
• Uses versatile strap-type mounting
• CSA Approved
• 120 volt
• Made in the USA
• Weight: Approximately: 3 pounds
• Shipping Dimensions: Approximately 13 x 7 x 4 inches to 13 x 8 x 4 inches depending on size selected.

[_shel_ny]

27 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

Everyone is providing some input but the original poster has either not read our replies or has not been back on the forum.  We need his input so I guess all we can do is hope he has solved his issue.

 

Rich Hartung

OP was on site about 3:30 AM EST today, that does not confirm if this thread was read, or even found again

[DrDoctor]

   I don't know if I'm going a bit afar afield, as our car ('46 Plymouth Special Deluxe Club Coupe) isn't particularly hard starting. However, having read the above remarks, I'm submitting a semi-related question. Specifically: what is the proper/appropriate gauge cable for the cables from the battery? the car is 6v negative ground. Yes, negative ground - it was that way when we got it several years ago. I'm not sure if it was that way originally (altho' I rather doubt it was . . .), if it was switched deliberately (who knows), or if it was switched by accident. In any case, I'm not inclined to switch it back to positive ground. The radio is already toast, most likely due to the case not being isolated when the polarity was switched. Further, I've rewired is using a Ron Francis "Get It Running" harness, specifically designed for 6v systems. While the gauge of the wiring is smaller, I'm assured by Ron Francis that since the amperage of the individual systems well within the wire's capacity, it won't be problem, and that they've never had anyone report any overloading problems. Also, I went from a single fuse, to a fuse block with several fuses. I have a suspicion that the battery cables are 12v cables, and based on what I'm reading here, are most likely too small, and may be restricting sufficient electric flow to the starter. Remarks????? Thx . . . .

[cruz]

yep I'm hear... didn't expect such a fast response.....batterys new..cables tight,new plugs, new cap, rotor, points...its the first start up in the morning thats been the problem..its been about 35 degrees ..had the carb rebuilt..could be the problem ? 

[desoto1939]

So you said not wanting to start as the first start up in the morning. So with that statement then we can assume that the car will at least start is that correct or the car will not start at all.  How many days has the car start prior to your trying to restart the car?  It could also be that the gas pump needs to get gas back upto the carb again. Do you have an electric fuel pump on the car.  Do you have the automatic choke set properly for the car if there is one installed.

 

Does the car have to be cranked for along time and then does it eventually start?  Please provide more input as to what is acutally happening.

 

Rich Hartung

[55 Fargo]

5 hours ago, iowa51 said:

Growing up on the farm the tractors and vehicles we used during the winter had a "tank type" heater that was plumbed into the heater hoses. Circulted hot water through the engine block and heater core. Almost instant heat to defrost the windows and easier starting. Thinner oil than normal (10w-30) also helped.

 

Home   /   Auto & ATV   /   Auto Maintenance & Parts   /   Engine Heaters   /   Kat's Circulating Tank Heater

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

KAT'S CIRCULATING TANK HEATER

Online Item #:  0000000047511

 

 

$49.95

 

 

 Type  1000 watt  1500 watt 

Qty:

 

 

 

 

ADD TO CART

Express Checkout

 

 

 

 

 

• Description
• More Info

• Heats & circulates the coolant in an engine for easy cold-weather starting
• Helps protect your engine from damage
• Made of die-cast aluminum to resist corrosion
• Thermostatically controlled 135-175 degrees F
• Uses versatile strap-type mounting
• CSA Approved
• 120 volt
• Made in the USA
• Weight: Approximately: 3 pounds
• Shipping Dimensions: Approximately 13 x 7 x 4 inches to 13 x 8 x 4 inches depending on size selected.

These are great, and even up here in Manitoba, think colder than Fargo, almost instant heat when you start the engine. A lot of diesels, trucks buses tractors etc use these.....

[rb1949]

The bubble trick was here in Indiana. Thank God only once. Brrrr.

[Dave72dt]

12 v battery cables are typically 4 gauge.  6V cable should be 1 or 0 is even better.  Smaller gauge numbers on wire means heavier wire, 10 gauge being a heavier, thicker wire than 14 or 16 for example, 0 is heavier than 1 gauge

[dpollo]

Surveyors were working in the region of the Montana -Alberta border when a woman with a shotgun demanded to know what they were doing in her barnyard.  "We are surveyors ma'am and we are surveying the USA-Canada border"

                         "Which side am I on?" demanded the woman.

                          " Seems you are on the U S side , ma'am"

                           " Good ", says she, " I've heard them Canadian winters are just awful. "

[DrDoctor]

Dave72dt,

   As a follow-up to your comment re: 1 gauge, or 0 gauge – I’m not sure, but that sounds pretty big to me. However, if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. Some of questions for you about this, tho' –

   1) Approximately how big is that gauge (¼” ½”)?

   2) Should those larger cables be between the battery and the solenoid, the solenoid and the starter, or both?

   3) Should it also go from the battery ground (negative post, in my case) and the engine (where it is currently)?

   And, 4) Use a covered cable for the ground vs the braided type?

   Many thanks for your info. I definitely appreciate it! Thx.

[Dave72dt]

1 gauge will be about 1/2 inch in diameter, 0 a bit larger and my personal choice, 00 is about 3/4 inch in diameter.

Both

Yes

Does not need to be but if you need one made for a specific length, covered would be my choice.  Also does not expose the wire to corrosion.

[John Reddie]

Back in the '60's, I had a "49 Chrysler and had problems starting it on frigid cold mornings. A co-worker recommended using an electric dipstick which I used with great success. That same car started one morning at -18 below zero after I used that stick. You had to place it in as soon as the engine was turned off and the oil was still hot. I don't know if these are even available any longer but I'm sure that the coolant heaters mentioned previously would work just as well. I would also look for a battery with high cold cranking amps (800 or higher). 

[DrDoctor]

Dave72dt,

   Thank so much for that information. I’ll be going to the auto parts store tomorrow to get cables as you’ve recommended. Many Thanks!!! Thx.

[cruz]

it seems to refuel related.. I'm getting the pre start regiment dialed in..ive only had the car 1 month..three pumps and were off.....runs a little ruff when first started, clears up in a minute..gonna check my carb settings..thanks for the info.... keeper coming..im listening.... 

[55 Fargo]

On 11/13/2016 at 10:39 AM, John Reddie said:

Back in the '60's, I had a "49 Chrysler and had problems starting it on frigid cold mornings. A co-worker recommended using an electric dipstick which I used with great success. That same car started one morning at -18 below zero after I used that stick. You had to place it in as soon as the engine was turned off and the oil was still hot. I don't know if these are even available any longer but I'm sure that the coolant heaters mentioned previously would work just as well. I would also look for a battery with high cold cranking amps (800 or higher). 

You don't need those anymore, magnetic stick on the oil pan heaters, work great.http://www.autozone.com/heating-and-cooling/engine-heater/kat-s-heaters-300-watt-magnum-magnetic-heater/130210_0_0/?checkfit=true