Open Topic Engine Thread?

[40desoto]

On 5/5/2017 at 9:28 PM, JOHN EDGE said:

I've enjoyed these past 8 pages some great some not so. New to sight and a first time builder of flat head Plymouth 6 but much experience with ford v8 flat heads and almost everything else. I bought this 1952 Plymouth suburban out of Adele brown's car collection in Salt Lake City. 44672 miles very nice car but I had plans

it arrived at our shop on a Friday night and my partner meet me for breakfast the next morning. I knew he wonder what was I thinking and what was l planning. You see our shop has produce 29 feature usac wins 2 owner of the year awards in usac 3 NHRA national event wallys(super stock/alcohol funny car/Nitro funny car) multi class wins at Indy, bonnieville with our 32 roadster over 200 mph. You get the idea so when this 218 cid 90 horsepower vehicle I was the blunt of many jokes but I like many of you have grown to love this mayflower. This car now draws more looks than some of our high dollar builds and I love it. The car is the same 100 percent stocker that arrive 10 month ago but she is now Cinderella at the ball .   Detroit Eaton lowering springs front /rear, fatman dropped uprights,fatman front shock kit, Coker wide whites,1957 caddy eldorado hub caps, Neil riddle from Seattle has helped me beyond words. I want to use and find as many factory upgrades and parts to keep it true to it heritage. Radio,clock,back up lights,rear arm rest,stainless belt moldings,door handle key guards,rear fender gravel guards, tailgate inner and outer hinges and handles factory chrome all OEM and most nos but I took some libertys with the engine bored .040 , edgy polished head,offy polishish intake,dual carter carbs 2barrels,tom Landon's linkage and air cleaners,tom's  exhaust manifolds, otb full flow oil filter system,otb fuel filter,otb dip stick, champion aluminum radiator,chrome 6 volt posi ground alternator , dual 6 volt optima battery's , custom fan shroud , etc. don garlits picked it as the best vintage mopar at this year mopar show at his museum. I just returned from Atlanta Autorama with the best wagon beating several nomad wagons.  Over 1000 miles and no hickups with overdrive and 3.70 gears . So go for speed and durability.  Working with tony at Ross Engines (Rodders journal) on a period correct magneto for the 216. Taking a  GM 6 cylinder mag and using the base of a stock distributor . I'll post pictures

im far from done ,we all agree now in the shop that it's cool and if I could shift it faster I'll teach those ford flatheads a lesson.  Where's that t5 and adapter kit I bought from Dave at vintage metals. Right at 20 miles to the gallon. Will post some engine and body picture

John how did that T5 adapter work for you? I bought one of his early adapter, I believe might if been the first he made, a few years back but I haven't installed. Dave is a great guy.

 

 

[55 Fargo]

T5 Topic now eh....LOL not an engine though

Okay be aware of the choice of this transmission, early S10 NWC transmissions  had a 4.03 1st gear and a .86  5th over drive, kinda useless, unless you are running say 3.08 rear gears.

The other S10 NWC transmissions had 3.76 1st gear, and a .73 overdrive, so you better have at least 3.55 rear gears for the 5th overdrive.

And if you are running 3.73s or 3,90s, the 3.76 1st gear is also geared low, and you would be shifting before you get across an intersection

All things need to be considered, you just don't buy a donor T5 and hope for the best, and unless you have bucket seats, you will not want the tail shaft shifter style either..

 

1. WHICH T-5 TO USE
   
   S10
   
   The S10 T-5 has garnered most of the attention due to its favorable shifter location. The S10, however, was a NWC unit through 1992. There are two basic gearsets available in the S10 T-5:
   
   1st - 4.03 2nd - 2.37 3rd - 1.49 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.86
   1st - 3.76 2nd - 2.18 3rd - 1.41 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.72
   
   As a general rule of thumb, regardless of engine, ALL S10 T-5 prior to 1985 received the 4.03 gear set, while ALL S10 T-5 after 1986 got the 3.76 gearset. The S10 T-5 was also available in the equivalent GMC T-truck.
   
   The speedometer changed to electronic with the 1990 model year, however, some 1989 model T5 came with electronic speedos if they were equipped with the optional digital dash. These can prove problematic for swaps, but output shafts & tail housings can be swapped with cable-driven speedo models. There is some evidence that certain types of early electronic speedos can be converted to mechanical, but I have no experience with this. There are also cable converters out there, but they are not inexpensive.
   
   While not very common, the Astrovan T-5 is worth mentioning. With an offset shifter that can be replaced with an S10 shifter, it makes a good candidate for swaps too. The 4-cyl vans used the 3.76 gearset, but the ratios found behind the V6 are better than the S10:
   
   1st- 3.50 2nd - 2.14 3rd - 1.39 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.78
   
   Tag Numbers:
   
   S/T Truck 4.03 Gearset 010, 012, 013, 014, 033, 042, 043, 055, 056, 057, 058, 146
   S/T Truck 3.76 Gearset 107, 108, 110, 136, 145, 186, 191, 192, 193, 201
   Astrovan 3.76 Gearset 170, 180, 190
   Astrovan 3.50 Gearset 101, 148, 149, 164, 179, 189
   
   MUSTANG
   
   Introduced in 1983, the T-5 arguably gained its fame in the Mustang 5.0. The first to take the step up to WC in 1985, Ford used the T-5 through the Fox-body & SN-95 chassis ending in 1995. The strongest T-5 available was found in later Mustangs and available through Ford's Motorsport & SVO operations.
   
   Available with a few different gearsets, the most common gearing was from 1985 through 1995:
   
   1st- 3.35 2nd 1.99 - 3rd 1.33 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.68
   
   The other V8 gearset used was the NWC 1983-84:
   
   1st - 2.95 2nd - 1.94 3rd - 1.34 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.62
   
   Ford rated their T-5 anywhere from 260lb/ft to 335lb/ft depending on the application. In 1989, stronger alloys were used upping the torque rating from 260lb/ft to 300lb/ft. The 310lb/ft rating belonged to the 1993-94 Cobra spec T-5 and an aftermarket-only Z-spec T-5 was available with 335lb/ft.
   
   The late-model (1994-95) 3.8 V6 T-5 was rated at 265lb/ft, had the slightly longer input shaft, and had the following ratios:
   
   1st - 3.35 2nd - 1.93 3rd - 1.29 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.73
   
   Ford did use the T-5 in later V-6 Mustangs, but there is very little data on them. I do not have a list of production tag numbers, but they are challenging to swap due to their linkage-based shifer and lack of a slip-yoke using a flanged mating surface. I have never held one of these in my hands, but I suspect they could be used in many swaps with a remote linkage and a different driveshaft.
   
   Tag Numbers
   
   NWC V8 034, 065
   3.8 V6 220, 236
   V8 260lb/ft 126, 165, 169, 141
   V8 300lb/ft 199, 204, 208, 246, 218, 219
   Z-spec 335 249, 251
   SVO 200, 202
   Cobra 239, 242, 253

Edited May 27, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[thebeebe5]

Whole thread is a great read.  

Considering options for the 201 in my '37.  Will likely stay quite stock (including crankshaft) for this build.  Thinking custom pistons for a CR bump and modern ring pack at this point.  Still perusing past threads for modification info.  

@martybose, everything at my pal's shop gets honed with a torque plate, so if I can't find one for the 201 we'll make one. And a really careful valve job.  

What CR have folks been running in this engine on pump gas?  

And, out of curiosity, for those that went turbo , is there a maximum boost this engine can handle before blowing head gaskets becomes a problem?

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, thebeebe5 said:

Whole thread is a great read.  

Considering options for the 201 in my '37.  Will likely stay quite stock (including crankshaft) for this build.  Thinking custom pistons for a CR bump and modern ring pack at this point.  Still perusing past threads for modification info.  

@martybose, everything at my pal's shop gets honed with a torque plate, so if I can't find one for the 201 we'll make one. And a really careful valve job.  

What CR have folks been running in this engine on pump gas?  

And, out of curiosity, for those that went turbo , is there a maximum boost this engine can handle before blowing head gaskets becomes a problem?

How about considering a 230, and make some decent power

[thebeebe5]

39 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

How about considering a 230, and make some decent power

Want to stick with original motor and stuff. This car is unmolested AFAIK.  I'm a pack rat.  If I pull original parts I'll feel like I have to save them rather than discard them.  Rather just put them all back together...  Also, I'd have to pay for a crank and rods then too.  If the crank cannot be reused (don't know yet) then I'll Make an alternative plan.

My only reasoning.

Edited June 7, 2017 by thebeebe5

[55 Fargo]

41 minutes ago, thebeebe5 said:

Want to stick with original motor and stuff. This car is unmolested AFAIK.  I'm a pack rat.  If I pull original parts I'll feel like I have to save them rather than discard them.  Rather just put them all back together...  Also, I'd have to pay for a crank and rods then too.  If the crank cannot be reused (don't know yet) then I'll Make an alternative plan.

My only reasoning.

Or pull the 201, and keep it hidden in the basement or the garage.

The have your ready built engine ready to drop in.

Seriously "your car" ,"your money", your decision, but that little 201 will be hardly stock or stock looking if you want to make power with it...

a hopped 201 might give you 218 stock power, not much but a warmed up 230 would give you 40 to 50 more hp that's huge.....

[RobertKB]

On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎07 at 2:45 PM, thebeebe5 said:

Want to stick with original motor and stuff. This car is unmolested AFAIK.  I'm a pack rat.  If I pull original parts I'll feel like I have to save them rather than discard them.  Rather just put them all back together...  Also, I'd have to pay for a crank and rods then too.  If the crank cannot be reused (don't know yet) then I'll Make an alternative plan.

My only reasoning.

I love that attitude. I try to reuse as much as possible that was original as long as it is serviceable.