mrwrstory Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Back on track,....kinda. Life got in the way (the good life, Grandkids & other auto infatuations) of progress on the Red Ram. Valve to piston clearance nominal .120". Heads torgued. Push rods and lash setting next,....for the last time. Very tedious but a one time deal. - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstfish66 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 looking goood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Here's an update and material for those who might be inclined wonder "why would ya do that?" I decided to do a little augment to the cooling system. Standard practice for all Hemis was to draw hot water from just the front of the heads. I reasoned that by also drawing water from the rear that the head temperature would then become more consistent front to back. Apparently not a big deal to Chrysler or performance builders that I'm aware of but,.....why not? Kind of a fun project and who knows, it might allow me to run cheaper gas or more advance. - - - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Just talking out loud: I'm not sure if its helping or hurting. Without the new set-up, water flows upward and would have to push from the back of the head to the front, thermal dynamics keeping all water moving . Taking pressure off the back of the head might mean it needs more pressure to flow to the pump? The water is not pulling any heat as it flows from the back to the water neck via the new set-up.....would this introduce a vacum "pull" causing water to stagnate in the back of the head? With the new set-up, you would think the water would have a more even flow from the heads and cool more evenly....I hope this the case. Just adding to the conversation Bill.....thanks for posting the build. 48D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 As a water pump spins it creates a low pressure area behind the impeller. This low pressure are is then filled by the fluid moving from the surrounding high pressure area that is created at the front of the impeller. Fluid doesn't care what route it has to take, only that there is a place to go. A non-contact infrared thermometer will be one way to check localized head temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I am open to opinion, input and/or questions. so, fire away, please! That being said, my thinking was that the heads are supplied by cooler water coming to them more or less equally from the block. The system is pressurized by the water being pumped against a closed thermostat. When the thermostat opens, water is allowed to escape, normally from just the front of the heads, into the radiator. With the modification I've made, I'm thinking when the thermostat opens, water will flow from both the front and rear of the heads into the radiator thus tending to equalize the temperature of the heads front to back. I think Mr. Stauffer was saying the same, but more elegantly. And, yes the infrared thermometer will either make me look thoughtful or a buffoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstfish66 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 1st question,,,last pic,,,how is that brass fitting sealed to that steel part you made that fits the end of the head water outlets ?? bill sounds like a great idea,,,let me know your findings,,,, all tho im still messing with the front end,,i think i may still have cooling problems, 241 hemi ,ive been checking with a infer red temp device,,,,knowing all the intake bolts go in to water,,,,ive been checking the t stat housing,,,intake bolts and the brass temp sending unit on the back of the head in a plate like the one you made to run your water tubes too,,, i just red on this forum that an infer red temp gauge wont read properly on an aluminum radiator tank,,,hum,,,, the t stat and intake bolts read about the same,,,the electric sending unit metal on the back of the head reads higher after the motor has run a while,,cant seem to find an electric gauge that reads the same as the mechical guage i have in the heater bung on the intake,,so you may be on to some thing moving the water around,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 As a water pump spins it creates a low pressure area behind the impeller. This low pressure are is then filled by the fluid moving from the surrounding high pressure area that is created at the front of the impeller. Fluid doesn't care what route it has to take, only that there is a place to go. A non-contact infrared thermometer will be one way to check localized head temps. It only begins to care when heat develops.....creating steam pockets that can lead to hot spots on the cylinder walls and then up to the heads at idle which can cause pre-ignition. Then there is cavitation (vapor bubbles) which disruptes water flow.....leading back to my first point. Again, just thoughts about the possible affects of Bill's mod, I have no proof of any foreseeable problems. Having fun watchin the hemi get built... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 1st question,,,last pic,,,how is that brass fitting sealed to that steel part you made that fits the end of the head water outlets ?? all tho im still messing with the front end,,i think i may still have cooling problems, 241 hemi ,ive been checking with a infer red temp device,,,,knowing all the intake bolts go in to water,,,,ive been checking the t stat housing,,,intake bolts and the brass temp sending unit on the back of the head in a plate like the one you made to run your water tubes too,,, the t stat and intake bolts read about the same,,,the electric sending unit metal on the back of the head reads higher after the motor has run a while,,cant seem to find an electric gauge that reads the same as the mechical guage i have in the heater bung on the intake,,so you may be on to some thing moving the water around,,,,, I'm planning to solder it all together although that will be a challenge. All the pieces you see are loose and of diff. materials. It's also required that the angle of the elbow, relative to the bolt holes be dead on for the tube fittings to thread on. I'm trying to figger a way to fixture it. I'll also take more heat than the propane torch so first thing today is to get the acetylene tank, which has languished in the back corner since the last century, filled. If your engine is in good tune, the cooling system is clean, you have a good radiator, and a fan mounted close, you should not have a cooling problem. Chrysler Corp. did little more than that in the 50's. A shroud would help if the problem is minimal. I screwed around with electric temp gauges on two cars until I got smart enough to match the sending unit to the gauge. All my cooling problems went away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 It only begins to care when heat develops.....creating steam pockets that can lead to hot spots on the cylinder walls and then up to the heads at idle which can cause pre-ignition. Then there is cavitation (vapor bubbles) which disruptes water flow.....leading back to my first point. Again, just thoughts about the possible affects of Bill's mod, I have no proof of any foreseeable problems. Having fun watchin the hemi get built... Steam pockets are most often created by thin cylinder walls...too much overbore... The thin wall simply does not have the ability to absorb the combustion heat that is transferred through the iron. In severe cases the wall will crack. Cavitation is not a huge issue in automobile engines, industry is a different subject. As to Mr Bill and his project, awesome work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 "Steam pockets are most often created by thin cylinder walls...too much overbore..." I agree.....which happens with rebuilt engines. "Cavitation is not a huge issue in automobile engines" I come from racing which is how I've always looked a Hemis, so maybe that's where my concerns are coming from. 48D link to quote below: "In concert with water pump design, thermostats are designed to slightly restrict coolant flow from the engine. This restriction allows the water pump to build additional pressure in the engine water jackets to further reduce surface boiling on the cylinder heads and to reduce pressure on the radiator header tank at high engine speeds. At higher engine speeds, the water pump begins to “cavitate,” which means that the water pump speed has reached the point at which most of the coolant is no longer contacting the water pump impellor. At this point, a negative pressure develops along the surfaces of the water pump impellor that increases the tendency of the coolant to boil and the engine to overheat. In extreme cases, cavitation can erode water pump impellors and housings. Many performance engine builders address this problem by installing special pulleys to reduce water pump speed. Modern auto manufacturers are similarly addressing the cavitation problem with electric water pumps." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40plyrod Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'm planning to solder it all together although that will be a challenge. All the pieces you see are loose and of diff. materials. It's also required that the angle of the elbow, relative to the bolt holes be dead on for the tube fittings to thread on. I'm trying to figger a way to fixture it. I'll also take more heat than the propane torch so first thing today is to get the acetylene tank, which has languished in the back corner since the last century, filled. If your engine is in good tune, the cooling system is clean, you have a good radiator, and a fan mounted close, you should not have a cooling problem. Chrysler Corp. did little more than that in the 50's. A shroud would help if the problem is minimal. I screwed around with electric temp gauges on two cars until I got smart enough to match the sending unit to the gauge. All my cooling problems went away. If soldering them turns out to be a problem could you change the fittings to pipe thread on one end or an ORB and tap the plates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 If soldering them turns out to be a problem could you change the fittings to pipe thread on one end or an ORB and tap the plates? Could do that but wanted to get the elbow as close to the plate as possible and have the option to fine tune the angle to connect to the tube. Decided to silver solder as I found some in my stash. Went to refill the acetylene tank which turned out to be waaaaay expired. Had to buy a new one. Money I was not needing to spend. Finally got to work to find out how much copper tube and steel plate don't like each other. Patience and lotsa flux did the trick. The assembly shown worked out okay. The other side needs a little more work. After all that, it will be painted. - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Done with the cooling adjunct. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40plyrod Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Looking good. probably a silly question but what is the other outlet to the rear on the left side for? Edited June 28, 2014 by 40plyrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 COOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Looking good. probably a silly question but what is the other outlet to the rear on the left side for? That's a threaded boss which also ends up on the right front for accessories, i.e. generator or PS pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I think 40plyrod is referring to the nipple on the driver side line right near the dizzy....... Oh yeah, damn fine work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Looking good. probably a silly question but what is the other outlet to the rear on the left side for? Doah! Tx Gary That nipple is for my next visit to Canada ...........for a heater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 And finally got all the lifters pre loaded via the adjustable push rods. Boy, whadda pain! Took about 5 hours. Tough enough on a Chrysler but the Dodge Hemi is smaller to the point of it being like micro surgery. You know those times when you gotta flip the open wrench over to take advantage of the 15 degree diff. Well this takes two wrenches and flipping them both,...alternatively and remembering which way to turn. The center sets are near impossible. I've set aside the whole afternoon to check them one more time before buttoning it up. Sure glad I only have to do it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstfish66 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 billl nice job on the piping,,,,i agree setting those adjustable push rods is a pain,,,when i replaced the lifters in my 241,,,they were ticking couldnt get them to stop,,,and had only a few miles on them,,,, i had to re-engineer a rocker tool because there wasnt enough room in the engine bay to swing it the way it was designed,,,still have the factory inner fender wellls in my 40 coupe,,, keep in mind,,if for some reason the pipe soldering doesnt hold,,,hot heads has/makes ? plates like you made out of aluminum,,,with pipe threads in them,,, i used them on the back of my 241 to run one of the heater hoses out of,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted July 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I can't imagine trying to adjust those push-rods in any engine compartment. That's a really discouraging prospect. So I tend to believe I have done it "once and for all". Speaking of engine compartments, next project is motor mounts. Everything I could find was well over $100.00 so I decided to make my own. If I'm lucky it will only cost me about $100.00 and about 100 hours - - Happy 4th everyone ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted July 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 with the help of a friend and his Heliarc setup. - 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstfish66 Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 mounts look great,,,gonna put a rubber bushing in that hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 mounts look great,,,gonna put a rubber bushing in that hole? Yes, I found the perfect one from Prothane. They're in the mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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